Is the ENTP-INFJ thing a mirage?!

[CarrotPoet]

I had an amazing evening on a dinner date with an ENTP last night. She's a roommate of a friend who I had become friends with over time. we became attracted to each other because we realized we could read each other in ways that felt uncanny... so what you say seems right, at least in my only experience.

i've been all morning... if anyone has some tips how i might deal with my friend, who is feeling some third-wheel anxiety right now, i would appreciate the advice. maybe i should start a thread...

 

[Sithious]

I had an amazing evening on a dinner date with an ENTP last night. She's a roommate of a friend who I had become friends with over time. we became attracted to each other because we realized we could read each other in ways that felt uncanny... so what you say seems right, at least in my only experience.

i've been all morning... if anyone has some tips how i might deal with my friend, who is feeling some third-wheel anxiety right now, i would appreciate the advice. maybe i should start a thread...

CarrotPoet, now, that's an awesome name.

/bow

 

[enigma]

Interesting. Maybe ENTP male and INFJ female relationships can work. From what I've seen the INFJ females get very upset with the ENTP male's lack of responsibility and drive... always playing, always able to come up with an excuse why they're not doing chores, always able to justify everything they are not doing, and most importantly being perfectly content to not live up to anything resembling their potential.

I also find it interesting that you mentioned that you wouldn't be able to handle it if he was more E and P. That's almost like saying ENTPs are a good match for INFJs, so long as they don't act like too much like ENTPs.

Are you sure everyone involved are INFJs and ENTPs respectively? I'm not doubting the possibility that like minded people attract one another, but INFJs and ENTPs are especially rare.

I LOL'd when you mentioned lack of responsibility and drive - I think that is my biggest complaint about my husband! It drives me nutty. Now he has a Hubby Do List - which seems to solve the issue. But you nailed that one! He is however very driven when it comes to his career, thank goodness.

I should have qualified and said, if his E and P were stronger around me. I have seen him really get all T & P, esp at work where he is a chair on several committees, and a union rep. And when he is feeling very social,and I am not he is good about letting me disappear or putting it off to a better time.
He really is good about toning it down for me. We get on each others nerves, no doubt. My F clashes with his T but we never get really pissed at each other. I think that very Extroverted and outgoing entp's may be a bit much for many infjs.

The other two couples, I had them take two different tests, and I did not explain what I was looking for. They are a school friend of his and a school friend of mine, both with entp hubbys. Who don't know each other. But we got talking about them one day, and it built up some steam... we were both curious, so they tested for us. I just looked over the emails, both women scored high in Fe, both men, very family oriented, scored on the lower side with E, both were high in their intuition. Perhaps it is the lower E and the high N that is the pivot point?

 

[sassafras]

Is the ENTP-INFJ thing a mirage?

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It may have something to do with the fact that many INFJ's are often INFP's in denial (Fi/Ti *shudder*) but then again, I personally believe that two balanced people of any "type" can enjoy a harmonious and beneficial relationship with one another.

I happen to love ENTPs; for the most part, I get along very well with them and I find my ENTP friends absolutely charming. I even dated an ENTP for 3+ years, and it was one of the most mutually satisfying romantic relationships that I've ever had. It's not to say that we didn't have any bumps in the road--we did-- and while we didn't always understand one another, we made the effort to see things from the other person's perspective.

My point is, just because it hasn't worked for you so far, doesn't mean its impossible. Keep an open mind

 

[VH]

Is the ENTP-INFJ thing a mirage?

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It may have something to do with the fact that many INFJ's are often INFP's in denial (Fi/Ti *shudder*) but then again, I personally believe that two balanced people of any "type" can enjoy a harmonious and beneficial relationship with one another.

I happen to love ENTPs; for the most part, I get along very well with them and I find my ENTP friends absolutely charming. I even dated an ENTP for 3+ years, and it was one of the most mutually satisfying romantic relationships that I've ever had. It's not to say that we didn't have any bumps in the road--we did-- and while we didn't always understand one another, we made the effort to see things from the other person's perspective.

My point is, just because it hasn't worked for you so far, doesn't mean its impossible. Keep an open mind

Agreed. I never said it was impossible, nor that an INFJ and an ENTP couldn't make each other extremely happy and stand the test of time. What I'm debating is the notion that INFJs and ENTPs are predisposed to work well in a romantic relationship long term. They're just not. Any pairing of INFJ and ENTP will likely take work and compromise, even the good ones, but that's not to say they can't be amazing relationships, especially if the ENTP can tone down the E and P and the INFJ leans toward E and can accept more than the average J.

Again, I'm debating the 'INFJ-ENTP thing', not the potential of individual couples to work out.

Type will never be the biggest factor in any relationship. The only thing that can be debated about type is predispostions and the interactions between them in a relationship. Everyone is an individual, and no two relationships are perfectly alike. But, there are factors that are common in types, which is what caused the 'INFJ-ENTP' assumption in the first place. I'm simply stating that this is actually one of the more strenuous pairings when type dispositions are considered. This is a discussion of overall trends, not every single relationship.

My stance is that I'd give INFJ-ENTP a 50% chance of working out, where I'd give INFJ-INFJ an 85%, INFJ-ENFJ 80%, INFJ-INFP 70%, etc. Of course, I'd give INFJ-ESTJ about a 10% chance of working out. My point of contention is that the 'INFJ-ENTP thing' implies that this is a magical combination, and it's just not. It's about 50/50, and judging by the reactions and stories on this thread, that's about right.

I LOL'd when you mentioned lack of responsibility and drive - I think that is my biggest complaint about my husband! It drives me nutty. Now he has a Hubby Do List - which seems to solve the issue. But you nailed that one! He is however very driven when it comes to his career, thank goodness.

I should have qualified and said, if his E and P were stronger around me. I have seen him really get all T & P, esp at work where he is a chair on several committees, and a union rep. And when he is feeling very social,and I am not he is good about letting me disappear or putting it off to a better time.
He really is good about toning it down for me. We get on each others nerves, no doubt. My F clashes with his T but we never get really pissed at each other. I think that very Extroverted and outgoing entp's may be a bit much for many infjs.

The other two couples, I had them take two different tests, and I did not explain what I was looking for. They are a school friend of his and a school friend of mine, both with entp hubbys. Who don't know each other. But we got talking about them one day, and it built up some steam... we were both curious, so they tested for us. I just looked over the emails, both women scored high in Fe, both men, very family oriented, scored on the lower side with E, both were high in their intuition. Perhaps it is the lower E and the high N that is the pivot point?

This is a clear example of what I mentioned above. You two have some predisposition outside what is normal for your types, and on top of that you both make an effort to accept each other's differences - especially the ones that could be otherwise toxic. Any two people can make a relationship work, and it really looks like you've found a rare ENTP who can accomodate an INFJ partner's needs. Clearly, you guys are in the favorable 50%.

 

[Timeless]

Strange, I know but I like to supply the loudness. If there are too many extroverts in a room I freak out.

That's how I am sort of.

You can put a lot of E's in there and I'll just tend to be real chill and laid back. If you one ESTP there though, hell I'll automatically be an INTP! :nerd:

However, when I'm around my INTJ friend, it's the opposite.

I read somewhere, somebody said "ENTPs are the most introverted compared to the rest of the extroverted types."

Anyways, I can't say ENTP/INFJs are a mirage or not. Personally, I'm not going to talk out of my ass without experience in it, and I don't. I'll first have to meet them.

So, Von Hase, with that said, when do you think about duality in Socionics? ENTp/ISFp and INFj/ESTj.

 

[VH]

So, Von Hase, with that said, when do you think about duality in Socionics? ENTp/ISFp and INFj/ESTj.

That's actually a theory of Beebe's called Shadow Modes, and I agree with it, though in Socionics, they're transposing it quite a bit. I'll break it down for you as it is supposed to work.

First, Socionics uses lower case letters that are the opposite of their corresponding MBTI types for introverts, but leaves the upper case letters alone for extroverts. For example, what you typed would actually be presented as follows in Socionics code... ENTP/ISFp and INFj/ESTJ. However, Socionics switches the J and P for introverts so the actual MBTI that you're referencing would be... ENTP/ISFJ and INFP/ESTJ. Confused yet?

Next, the theory is based on the idea that as we get stressed, we lean more strongly on our tertiary and inferior functions. As an ENTP you lean more on your Fe and Si. This theory holds merit, but it's really based on which functions you need at the time. For instance, when you need more Ti than Ne, you seem more like an INTP. When you need Fe most, you might come across as an ESFJ, and when you need both Si and Fe, you'll come off as an ISFJ. It's a sound theory, but Socionics does a really bad job of explaining it in most cases.

In contrast, the actual shadow mode is your shadow (or opposite) set of functions. ENTP would be paired with INTJ actually. Ne, Ti, Fe, Si becomes Ni, Te, Fi, Se. This is the most commonly accepted theory, and to be honest, they both have a lot of merit as the human mind will always try to adapt when it isn't successful but needs to be.

 

[Raccoon Love]

That's actually a theory of Beebe's called Shadow Modes, and I agree with it, though in Socionics, they're transposing it quite a bit. I'll break it down for you as it is supposed to work.

First, Socionics uses lower case letters that are the opposite of their corresponding MBTI types for introverts, but leaves the upper case letters alone for extroverts. For example, what you typed would actually be presented as follows in Socionics code... ENTP/ISFp and INFj/ESTJ. However, Socionics switches the J and P for introverts so the actual MBTI that you're referencing would be... ENTP/ISFJ and INFP/ESTJ. Confused yet?

Next, the theory is based on the idea that as we get stressed, we lean more strongly on our tertiary and inferior functions. As an ENTP you lean more on your Fe and Si. This theory holds merit, but it's really based on which functions you need at the time. For instance, when you need more Ti than Ne, you seem more like an INTP. When you need Fe most, you might come across as an ESFJ, and when you need both Si and Fe, you'll come off as an ISFJ. It's a sound theory, but Socionics does a really bad job of explaining it in most cases.

In contrast, the actual shadow mode is your shadow (or opposite) set of functions. ENTP would be paired with INTJ actually. Ne, Ti, Fe, Si becomes Ni, Te, Fi, Se. This is the most commonly accepted theory, and to be honest, they both have a lot of merit as the human mind will always try to adapt when it isn't successful but needs to be.

Nice explanations Von Hase, and I agree with the 2nd shadow mode theory your proposed when I am on shadow mode, however, seeing as we all have different order of cognitive functions, for example mines is Ni>Fe>Si>Te at the moments, will that make me some sort of Ne>Fi>Se>Ti type? or will I keep the standard INFJ shadow mode, also do you think this cognitive set is due to confusion or is this is my actual set?

 

[Billy]

I've only dated one definite INFJ guy. It was awesome for a while, but we were soooooooooooooooooooooo dumb and young (at least I was). I get along with the women really well, but I don't know any INFJ guys anymore!

im an INFJ male, if youre hot I will date you!

 

[floatingbridge]

Well, we are around.
And without a doubt there will be female ENTP's looking for male INFJ's or INTJ's so there is hope.

Most of the time though I'm at home glued to my computer. Its not often I like to go out. I find people and surroundings very intense, I don't generally like loud places. Strange, I know but I like to supply the loudness. If there are too many extroverts in a room I freak out.

However we are usually the loud ones that you see at libraries, museums, gyms, art clubs, sporting and music events. We look intensely at things and analyze them from a distance and sometimes up close (very, very up close, I have been told off for doing this). We are often found sitting or standing in the thinkers pose.

We are generally nice people unless you say something really, really stupid and insulting. ENTP's cannot and will not tolerate stupidity on any level.
Mentally handicapped people are an exception, I find them very enjoyable to work with and I work with them on a regular basis.

Anyway, I'll steer back to the original subject, ENTP's have a habit of doing that.

Yeah, I tend to think ENTPs are the quietest of the extroverts, and INFJs the loudests

 

[Raccoon Love]

Yeah, I tend to think ENTPs are the quietest of the extroverts, and INFJs the loudests

There is little/no correlation between the ''loudest'' and ''quietest'' of introverts/extroverts that solidly depends on the person which is why we are uniqe in our own way because we all have differences even among members of our own type.

 

[Shai Gar]

I had an amazing evening on a dinner date with an ENTP last night. She's a roommate of a friend who I had become friends with over time. we became attracted to each other because we realized we could read each other in ways that felt uncanny... so what you say seems right, at least in my only experience.

i've been all morning... if anyone has some tips how i might deal with my friend, who is feeling some third-wheel anxiety right now, i would appreciate the advice. maybe i should start a thread...

Ask her for sex. Do not use a negotiation, use an Argument. A rational argument for why you two should have sex all day as a second date.

 

[NeverAmI]

It's always been my dream to ride in one of those VW vans. We will intuit over land and water and sky (because apparently we'll be jumping cliffs like in a hollywood movie ... sell-outs!!!).

Get in the van

 

[VH]

There is little/no correlation between the ''loudest'' and ''quietest'' of introverts/extroverts that solidly depends on the person which is why we are uniqe in our own way because we all have differences even among members of our own type.

The loudest most non-stop talking person I know is an ENTP.

The quietest person I've ever met is an INFJ.

However, aside from that, there is a very simple rule. Talk to us about something we are interested in, and you won't be able to shut us up. The difference is that INFJs will eventually catch on that you're not interested. Well, that and ENTPs talk at 100 miles per hour when they're excited.

 

[Raccoon Love]

The loudest most non-stop talking person I know is an ENTP.

The quietest person I've ever met is an INFJ.

However, aside from that, there is a very simple rule. Talk to us about something we are interested in, and you won't be able to shut us up. The difference is that INFJs will eventually catch on that you're not interested. Well, that and ENTPs talk at 100 miles per hour when they're excited.

hahah so true, this is me in a lot of circumstances...

 

[sassafras]

Agreed. I never said it was impossible, nor that an INFJ and an ENTP couldn't make each other extremely happy and stand the test of time. What I'm debating is the notion that INFJs and ENTPs are predisposed to work well in a romantic relationship long term.... [snip!]

And I never said you did. In fact, I didn't even see your post until now, VH. I was responding directly to the OP. If I don't quote a particular post from the body of the thread, it usually means that I'm just rambling on

 

[WellNoWonder]

It's much more like;

ENTPs tend fall for us because of how we treat them, but they don't really have the capacity to understand us and meet our needs. It's often like the child at the pet store who wants that cute pet, but cannot care for it.

I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying that it is unlikely to work, will require a lot of effort, and will not meet the expectations created by the assumption that ENTPs and INFJs are a 'perfect' match.

Oh gosh I am so GOING through the flux with my ENTP friend. I cannot help but spoil a man I like, and I think I've spoiled him.

Now I am feeling like a pet, just like you said. I guess I need/want a bit more effort from his end, and though we've always had a simple cosmic magic between us, I still feel something's lacking.. blech.

 

[lynchman]

One of my best friends, who I have lived with on and off over the years, did the MBTI recently and it turned out he is an ENTP. What is amusing is that, out of all my friends, he is the least likely to be a pal. We are completely different - he's a hippy, and well, I am not - and yet we understand each other in a bizarrely unique way. It is very amusing. We have the most stimulating intellectual arguments out of all my friends - both of us can endlessly throw something the other has never thought of and yet we walk away, not antagonistic, but feeling more rounded.

 

[ENTPwoman]

I just ended a relationship with an INFJ because I am moving to another city and he feels he can't come with me. He is absolutely lovely. He is also one of only 2 men in my life who I have remained attracted to over the long term. I think the other man was probably an INFJ as well and they were both graphic artists!

Would it have worked out if I stayed? Personality wise we were highly compatible and our life experiences were bizarrely meshed. I also like quiet time and he liked to go out so that worked well too for both our types. Our problems were geographical. he loves small town life but the lack of stimulation and opportunity has become intolerable to me. I wish things could have worked out differently for us but I do know I will be looking for an INFJ in the future!

And yes, I totally agree with many of the posts on here...as an ENTP I can seem selfish and uncaring but that is on the surface. If I felt that way inside I wouldn't be in the relationship! To hear my lover speak of me you would think I were some far more generous, considerate type than how an ENTP is usually described. I know he made me want to be a better person and his openness about his own feelings made me far more aware of mine....something I needed. He was also very happy with the fact that I was not crazy like the other women he had dated since his divorce and I didn't have outrageous mood swings and big drama. So maybe there is something an ENTP woman has to offer to an INFJ man.

Good Luck to all.

 

[ENTPwoman]