Left or Liberal?

[Tamagochi]

It's hard to hold a productive discussion when you throw a new conspiracy each time. So I'll have to depart this thread.

Before going though: most conspiracies can be explained with emergent system behaviour. When complex systems interact, new and unexpected phenomena can appear. Some people however try to explain it by backtracking and insisting that it was planned secretely and intentionally from the very beginning. It is a cognitive error to believe that each effect must have had an intentional cause (also known as "karma", "destiny", etc.).

 

[kinglear]

It's hard to hold a productive discussion when you throw a new conspiracy each time. So I'll have to depart this thread.

Before going though: most conspiracies can be explained with emergent system behaviour. When complex systems interact, new and unexpected phenomena can appear. Some people however try to explain it by backtracking and insisting that it was planned secretely and intentionally from the very beginning. It is a cognitive error to believe that each effect must have had an intentional cause (also known as "karma", "destiny", etc.).

its all the same conspiracy but karma is just cause and effect

so for example if you allow a network of inter-married families who own a load of large banks to form a cartel and gain a monopoly on the money supply then they will use that power to make themselves richer at your expense

that's cause and effect

 

[kinglear]

The role of political blackmail in steering western governments....

Bringing Down Jeffrey Epstein (2018 Documentary)

 

[kinglear]

^ that documentary touches on the issue of political blackmail through the use of recorded sexual deviance and the reason all of these scandals have come to light in recent years but have only taken down celebrity level people while the upper echelons of society like politicians and business chiefs have been protected is because that is how things are run at the top of society

We had another scandal recently in the Uk involving a documentary using undercover reporting and footage to catch the zionist lobby in the UK influencing british politics by seeking to takedown politicians they saw as a threat to their own agenda

Al Jazeera made a second documentary about the role of the zionist lobby in the US but the US government was able under pressure from the zionist lobby to then pressure the qatari government to get them to suppress the film but now it is leaking out

This website has the first two of four parts of the suppressed film and you can watch them here to learn what is going on behind the scenes in american politics:

Watch the film the Israel lobby didn’t want you to see
The Electronic Intifada 2 November 2018

The Electronic Intifada has obtained a complete copy of The Lobby – USA, a four-part undercover investigation by Al Jazeera into Israel’s covert influence campaign in the United States.

It is today publishing the first two episodes. The Paris-based Orient XXI has published the same episodes with French subtitles.

The film was made by Al Jazeera during 2016 and was completed in October 2017.

But it was censored after Qatar, the gas-rich Gulf emirate that funds Al Jazeera, came under intense Israel lobby pressure not to air the film.

Although Al Jazeera’s director-general claimed last month that there were outstanding legal issues with the film, his assertions have been flatly contradicted by his own journalists.

In March, The Electronic Intifada was the first to report on any of the film’s specific content. We followed this in August by publishing the first extract of the film, and shortly after Max Blumenthal at the Grayzone Project released others.

Since then, The Electronic Intifada has released three other extracts, and several other journalists have watched the entire film and written about it – including Alain Gresh and Antony Loewenstein.

Now The Electronic Intifada can reveal for the first time that it has obtained all four parts of the film.

You can watch the first two parts in the video embeds above and below.
https://electronicintifada.net/cont...Gbv1SHgfKklDYVwZWA-UYT1nyai8nApoXjV-4GJCjV3Ug

 

[kinglear]

The equivalent of the democrats in the UK is the labour party which is lead by jeremy corbyn. His brother piers corbyn is a scientist and he outlines what the problem is in this film for example at 1:00:35 namely that what is called 'the left' these days is really a vehicle for big business:

The Uncertainty Has Settled (Full film)

 

[Rowan Tree]

His brother piers corbyn

Oh wow, you're citing poor Piers now? Yeah, sure, the left is a vehicle for big business because it accepts climate change! The fall of the Berlin Wall was when everything went wrong...

 

[kinglear]

Oh wow, you're citing poor Piers now? Yeah, sure, the left is a vehicle for big business because it accepts climate change! The fall of the Berlin Wall was when everything went wrong...

i think mentioning piers is significant seeing as his brother might become prime minister of the worlds fifth largest economy; we can then reasonably assume that his brother will be aware of the things piers is aware of

see the mistake you are making is thinking that the aim of the corporate left is to build a better world. It isn't

The aim of the corporate left is to cull the population and enslave the survivors under a technocratic gulag system

 

[Rowan Tree]

the things piers is aware of

Piers Corbyn, sweet as the man might be, is not aware of anything with respect to the British left or global warming—Jeremy Corbyn is certainly well aware of his brother's limitations.

 

[kinglear]

Piers Corbyn, sweet as the man might be, is not aware of anything with respect to the British left or global warming—Jeremy Corbyn is certainly well aware of his brother's limitations.

what do you base these assertions on?

are you aware that piers corbyn is an astrophysicist who has been involved in left wing politics since at least the 1960's?

does your resume read like this:

Student representation
In 1969 he became the first president of the Imperial College Students' Union to be directly elected by the student body. As president until 1970, Corbyn was successful in establishing a sabbatical union president, enabling the elected student leader to be registered at the college without having to study or pay fees (in fact they received a grant from the college and union).[5]

Corbyn set up a short-lived Imperial College Representative Council, seats on which were distributed between members of the college on the basis of their numbers, a system that almost gave students a majority. The ICAUT, a staff union, refused to cooperate with this student-led initiative. Although this particular council did not survive, increased student representation on college boards and committees became, like the sabbatical president, a lasting success of Corbyn's time as ICU president.

Corbyn, together with the rector at the time, Lord Penney, received the Queen, when she opened a new administrative building in 1969, wearing a cravat, long hair and a beard for the occasion. During the visit Corbyn petitioned the Queen in front of 900 people, asking for students to be given greater say in the governance of the college.[6]

Housing rights

Corbyn was a housing and squatters' rights activist in the north Paddington area of Westminster in the mid-1970s. In 1974, he fought for a seat on the council as a Squatters and Tenants candidate; in 1978, he and a colleague fought as Decent Housing candidates.[7] In the 1977 GLC election he was the International Marxist Group candidate for Lambeth Central.[8] He and some of the squatters in Elgin Avenue were, as a result of their campaign which included the building of barricades against eviction, rehoused by the GLC in 1975 spread out between Westminster and in other London boroughs to discourage the risk of further united action. He later moved from that rehousing in Rust Square to the Alvey Estate in Southwark where he became a leader of the tenants association.

Party politics
Corbyn was a member of the Labour Party and served as a councillor in the London borough of Southwark, Burgess Ward, between 1986 and 1990.[9] In 1987, Corbyn was arrested for the defacing of an Alliance poster; he was subsequently released without charge.[10] For seven years he was an unpaid campaigns organiser in Bermondsey and Southwark, being thanked by Tony Blair in 1998 at Downing Street.[11] Piers Corbyn left the Labour Party in 2002 in the run up to the invasion of Iraq,[12] and stood as an independent candidate on housing issues in the Southwark election in 2015.[13] According to The Sunday Times in September 2017, his attempt to rejoin the Southwark Constituency Labour Party in January 2017 was blocked.[12]

His brother, Jeremy Corbyn, has been Labour MP for Islington North since 1983 and in September 2015 was elected leader of the Labour Party. In August 2015, Piers Corbyn supported his brother's campaign in Labour Party leadership election, on the basis that he stood for proper debate and accountability, including on climate.[14][15] He tweeted: "ONLY poll that counts open14Aug. Back #JeremyCorbyn 2lead Labour! Register 2vote by Midday12Aug #Corbyn4Labour #Piers".[16]

Corbyn's denial of current global warming has tended to find more favour in right-wing Conservative circles, however.[13] Ex-Mayor of London Boris Johnson had repeatedly suggested in his Daily Telegraph column and elsewhere that Corbyn might be correct.[17][18] Corbyn has, however, criticised Margaret Thatcher's promotion of man-made global warming (also saying that she later recanted her doom-mongering) around the time of the 1984-85 miners' strike, judging it a disingenuous attempt to justify shutting down coal mines.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Corbyn

 

[Rowan Tree]

are you aware that piers corbyn is an astrophysicist

Expertise creep is a sad affliction. Piers is a good man, not suggesting otherwise. I share his instincts on Iraq and Blairism. But his views on climate change are not peer-reviewed, nor informed by his specialist knowledge nor accepted by any scientific organization. Kurt Gödel was a genius logician who expanded the scope of human knowledge, but that doesn't mean the paranoid fantasies that eventually consumed him were any more valid—I don't need my own Wikipedia page to see that Piers has no credibility on this subject any more than I need one to know that Gödel's beliefs cost him his life.

 

[kinglear]

Expertise creep is a sad affliction. Piers is a good man, not suggesting otherwise. I share his instincts on Iraq and Blairism. But his views on climate change are not peer-reviewed, nor informed by his specialist knowledge nor accepted by any scientific organization. Kurt Gödel was a genius logician who expanded the scope of human knowledge, but that doesn't mean the paranoid fantasies that eventually consumed him were any more valid—I don't need my own Wikipedia page to see that Piers has no credibility on this subject any more than I need one to know that Gödel's beliefs cost him his life.

you are wrong about that

science does underpin what piers is saying

he is saying that there is an inter-relation between the sea and the air and that there is a correlation between the suns activities and the climate

this has enabled him to make correct predictions

if you watch that documentary i posted above it features another scientist explaining that there were two tribes among the scientists. one tribe was looking at the empirical evidence relating to what the climate was actually doing while the other tribe relies on computer modelling. he says both were vying for research funding and that the computer modelling people won and got the funding but he says their models are wrong and don't match the empirical evidence

So i suggest that the reason this has happened is because there are powerful big business interests ie billionaries who have their own IDEOLOGICAL agenda and they have pushed the computer modelling side of things because it allows them to create a false reality that they can then use to advance their own ideological agenda

what people should be doing is looking at reality

 

[Wyote]

wrong

 

[kinglear]

'prepare to die!'

 

[Wyote]

'prepare to die!'

 

[kinglear]

it's all political....the gun rights issue, the orchestrated (weaponised) MASS immigration, the orchestrated banking crises, the destruction of the middle class, the breaking up of society through identity politics pushed by neo-marxist critical theory etc....you are being systematically TAKEN DOWN

New video shows migrant caravan is 'organized, well-funded'

 

[Rowan Tree]

it's all political....the gun rights issue, the orchestrated (weaponised) MASS immigration, the orchestrated banking crises, the destruction of the middle class, the breaking up of society through identity politics pushed by neo-marxist critical theory etc....you are being systematically TAKEN DOWN

New video shows migrant caravan is 'organized, well-funded'

Also, the Frankfurt School (which is what you guys seem to generally mean when you say shit like 'neo-marxist critical theory') did not advocate identity politics. Indeed, a huge problem with Marxism more generally has been the downplaying of oppression outside of class, such as misogyny, racism, etc.

 

[Ren]

Also, the Frankfurt School (which is what you guys seem to generally men when you say shit like 'neo-marxist critical theory') did not advocate identity politics. Indeed, a huge problem with Marxism more generally has been the downplaying of oppression outside of class, such as misogyny, racism, etc.

Yeah, but I believe the conspiracy theorists talk about a "trick" played by the Neo-Marxists to transition towards identity politics and remain influential in that way. That's something Jordan Peterson himself says all the time. Sigh.

 

[Rowan Tree]

Yeah, but I believe the conspiracy theorists talk about a "trick" played by the Neo-Marxists to transition towards identity politics and remain influential in that way. That's something Jordan Peterson himself says all the time. Sigh.

Yeah, I've heard that one too. I guess you can't really argue against conspiracy because it can always account for any inconsistency by just declaring it apart of the conspiracy. I remember arguing against a fundamentalist Christian as a child once; I was an Anglican then, but like my family more generally I held to the sane reading of Genesis etc. as allegory. The fundamentalist, on the other hand, was not only convinced that the world was only a few millennia old, but that dinosaur fossils were a trick from God intended to test our faith. You can only despair.

One of the sad things about the whole 'neo-Marxist' thing is that they often zero in on poor Adorno, who really is the furthest away from the caricature as anyone could ever be. That is, he was essentially a lovable grump who adored the Enlightenment and thought pop culture was terrible.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

it's all political....the gun rights issue, the orchestrated (weaponised) MASS immigration, the orchestrated banking crises, the destruction of the middle class, the breaking up of society through identity politics pushed by neo-marxist critical theory etc....you are being systematically TAKEN DOWN

New video shows migrant caravan is 'organized, well-funded'

Oh dear... And where do you fall down on those issues?

In any case, the problem you are facing right now is that you've firmly identified yourself as part of the opposing clique to that of your audience, so pretty much everything you say they will be opposed to.

This is a theory of Cartwright and Harary (Social Balance Theory in psychology/mathematics), that individuals with which we have negative relations can only be a negative influence upon us (I.e. We will always believe the opposite of what they have to say).

Your task must first be, therefore, disentangling yourself from any identification with a political wing &c. if you wish to have any proselytic influence at all, because what you're doing right now is actually counterproductive to your objectives.

 

[Ren]

One of the sad things about the whole 'neo-Marxist' thing is that they often zero in on poor Adorno, who really is the furthest away from the caricature as anyone could ever be. That is, he was essentially a lovable grump who adored the Enlightenment and thought pop culture was terrible.

Definitely. In fact, back when I was in college, I sometimes heard people of a postmodern tendency call Adorno "conservative".

Buuuuuuuuuuuut all the same, those very same people see Adorno as their master. It's the trick of the radical left.

Note: "trick" and "conspiracy" are interchangeable here, interestingly enough!