Let's talk about Satan

sprinkles said:
People do include it in their study, but they are fundamentally different ideas. One is how life started and the other is what it did afterwards.

Some people accept evolution but reject abiogenesis, saying that God created things to evolve for example.
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Ok.
 
Time and evolution -- The passage of time is related to evolution based on how quickly species are able to reproduce. More time is required for species to evolve when they reproduce slowly because reproduction is what drives evolution. If a beneficial mutation shows up in one generation, then more individuals with that mutation will reproduce, passing their traits onto the next generation, causing possibly a new species to develop over time. So, yeah, time itself is physics-based but the passage of time and the time it takes to reproduce is tied to evolution. That's one reason we can observe evolution in process in fast-reproducing organisms. Like fruit flies and bacteria.
 
this is only temporary said:
Time and evolution -- The passage of time is related to evolution based on how quickly species are able to reproduce. More time is required for species to evolve when they reproduce slowly because reproduction is what drives evolution. If a beneficial mutation shows up in one generation, then more individuals with that mutation will reproduce, passing their traits onto the next generation, causing possibly a new species to develop over time. So, yeah, time itself is physics-based but the passage of time and the time it takes to reproduce is tied to evolution. That's one reason we can observe evolution in process in fast-reproducing organisms. Like fruit flies and bacteria.
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Yes - sort of. Evolution takes time like walking to the store takes time. It's a necessary consequence, but not really a key element in the function itself. When you go to the store, you move however fast you move, your movement is not typically adjusted for how long time is supposed to take (unless you're consciously planning something very odd...)

There's simultaneity and multiplicative effects as well, because generations can overlap, and there can be many offspring at once. So an organism which has repeated clutches of numerous offspring will spread its variations simultaneously over a great number of specimens if all these offspring go out and find mates at roughly the same time. Fecundity plays a large role here in propagating the changes not only through time, but through space, and through population - the latter being less connected to time due to the multiplicative effects and overlap.

It's also helped along by the possibility of different traits arising simultaneously and being recombined when two sets of offspring with different mutations were born at roughly the same time and meet up. This is another possible multiplicative effect which overrides the usual concept of time.

Edit: or think of it this way. It takes time for the flu to go around, but how far it spreads is more a factor of how many people catch it and how many people they can spread it to. So it can become epidemic in a very short time.
 
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I don't even see why time is an issue here.

Unless people are purporting that the universe is 6,000 years old and not 13.72 billion. I'm which case that's about as worthy of debate as Flat Earth theory (it's not).
 
muir said:
What if the universe is actually a hologram in which case it IS flat?

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblo...-greatest-revolution-of-the-21st-century.html
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Old news. Not really significant until it can be proven in any case. We prove that the universe is real, and anyone can come up with speculations as to the nature of our existence ad infinitum, and we couldn't disprove it.

Yet just like anything else, the inability to disprove something does not make something true.
 
muir said:
What if the universe is actually a hologram in which case it IS flat?

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblo...-greatest-revolution-of-the-21st-century.html
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Old news. Not really significant until it can be proven in any case. We can't actually prove the universe is real st any rate, so anyone can come up with speculations as to the nature of our existence ad infinitum, and we couldn't disprove it. It's not new or exciting, and I have to laugh at the way the article purports that the idea is somehow revolutionary. It's not.

Just like anything else, the fact that you can't disprove something doesn't constitute proof. Lack of proof =/= proof.
 
[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]
I read the "huge post" and I mostly agree with it. I don't dismiss all scientific discoveries. I'm just very skeptic sometimes, because I see many contradictions.
As for the "old earth" issue, I agree with it. I already said that a literal interpretation of the Bible is not correct.
I know there are many christians who believe in a young earth interpretation. Many of them say they have scientific proofs (moon dust and other things), but that's just their view, not my view.
I don't agree with evolution though. Yes, I think evolution guided by God would be a possibility, but that doesn't mean it happened, and this is just how I view things. As I already said, there are even atheists like Thomas Nagel who dismiss evolution based on common sense and other philosophical arguments.
Thanks for the discussion :). I think it has been very constructive and intelectually stimulating.
 
[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]
Like Skarekrow said to me, neither of us is the sum of the arguments and debates that we have.
I really appreciate the things we talked about, even if we don't agree on so many things.
Overall, I think you are a very good debater. Also you have a very sharp mind, which sees objections everywhere.

Again, I'm sory for anything negative in a way or another that has happened. I hope I will get better at this with time:).
 
LucyJr said:
@Skarekrow
I read the "huge post" and I mostly agree with it. I don't dismiss all scientific discoveries. I'm just very skeptic sometimes, because I see many contradictions.
As for the "old earth" issue, I agree with it. I already said that a literal interpretation of the Bible is not correct.
I know there are many christians who believe in a young earth interpretation. Many of them say they have scientific proofs (moon dust and other things), but that's just their view, not my view.
I don't agree with evolution though. Yes, I think evolution guided by God would be a possibility, but that doesn't mean it happened, and this is just how I view things. As I already said, there are even atheists like Thomas Nagel who dismiss evolution based on common sense and other philosophical arguments.
Thanks for the discussion :). I think it has been very constructive and intelectually stimulating.
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No, thank you Sir!
It has been very interesting yes!
I could see evolution directed by God as a possibility...or maybe there is something deep within the programing of the universe itself...kind of like a universal law of evolution...perhaps as some feel, the universe is a consciousness and we are all the tiny neurons, created by said universe for one reason or another.
I don’t really know....and I know that I have a very difficult time having faith in just about everything....it’s kind of sad really, it would be a nice feeling I think.
Anyhow...we are all free to believe whatever we want to believe...if I wish to believe that we all turn into octopi when we die, then so be it....lol.
Sometimes it’s hard when you are having a heated debate not to let your emotions get the better of you...to add insults, to throw in little digs at one another...I hope you didn’t perceive any of my posts that way, I don’t think I said anything to attack you personally, if I did, then I apologize.
Anyway, have a wonderful Christmas!
Thank you LucyJr.
 
Skarekrow said:
No, thank you Sir!
It has been very interesting yes!
I could see evolution directed by God as a possibility...or maybe there is something deep within the programing of the universe itself...kind of like a universal law of evolution...perhaps as some feel, the universe is a consciousness and we are all the tiny neurons, created by said universe for one reason or another.
I don’t really know....and I know that I have a very difficult time having faith in just about everything....it’s kind of sad really, it would be a nice feeling I think.
Anyhow...we are all free to believe whatever we want to believe...if I wish to believe that we all turn into octopi when we die, then so be it....lol.
Sometimes it’s hard when you are having a heated debate not to let your emotions get the better of you...to add insults, to throw in little digs at one another...I hope you didn’t perceive any of my posts that way, I don’t think I said anything to attack you personally, if I did, then I apologize.
Anyway, have a wonderful Christmas!
Thank you LucyJr.
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It was all cool,thanks!
 
Barnabas said:
I'm interested in what other forum members think/believe/things/monkeyemotes about Satan/Devil/adversary/or what ever name you'd like to go with.

Though for this discussion I'd like to keep it relegated to the Judeo-christian penultimate evil. So while I know there are plenty of other faiths and individual spiritualities I'd like for them to leave their variants out of the discussion though they should feel free to make comment on their opinions of Christianity's big bad though.

And let's start it off with a question, does Satan exist?
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Man, I realised I never answered to the OP in this thread.
Yes, Satan exist.
If you don't believe it on 'normal' bases, go to a satanist church or worship place and stay there for a while. One will be at least surprised.
ps: This is just a funny remark, but its also slighty serious!
 
LucyJr said:
Man, I realised I never answered to the OP in this thread.
Yes, Satan exist.
If you don't believe it on 'normal' bases, go to a satanist church or worship place and stay there for a while. One will be at least surprised.
ps: This is just a funny remark, but its also slighty serious!
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do you have any idea how hard it is to find a biblicaly based theistic satanist church
 
I don't think Satan exists. I think Satanists are evil atheists who follow the teachings of a disturbed carnie. The whole notion of Satan is laughable. The whole satanic church is ridiculous. I do believe in evil and light. I do not think humans innately good or bad. I think these are exasperated terms expressing our concern for others, or lack thereof. I do believe the most light can be found with balance.
 
Barnabas said:
do you have any idea how hard it is to find a biblicaly based theistic satanist church
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Yes I do, most of them don't want to operate in a publicly accessible venue due to the fact that they engage in human sacrifice rituals. If you believe the news though that "sort of thing" doesn't exist on this earth anymore, except in very secluded rare cases. It totally doesn't happen here in the U.S.(extreme sarcasm)
 
Barnabas said:
do you have any idea how hard it is to find a biblicaly based theistic satanist church
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Yes, I do, but I say it will worth anytime.

You ironic question tough tells me you find the idea silly, which means you won't go into such a "place" like a satanist church...which is really bad, because I can honestly tell you that people who had been trough there are not in the mood to ask ironic or sarcastic question...all of them are frightened by dark memories from there...all their lifes...but I better stop here, because you are such a mature person, and you'll find me silly.
 
LucyJr said:
Yes, I do, but I say it will worth anytime.

You ironic question tough tells me you find the idea silly, which means you won't go into such a "place" like a satanist church...which is really bad, because I can honestly tell you that people who had been trough there are not in the mood to ask ironic or sarcastic question...all of them are frightened by dark memories from there...all their lifes...but I better stop here, because you are such a mature person, and you'll find me silly.
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that was supposed to be a funny response... but also slightly serious


Edit: also that question was sarcastic, not ironic.

Edit 2: that edit came of far more childishly then I intended it too.
 
Satan is my bitch. So is God. Oh wait thats right I forgot, they are one and the same. Gotan is my bitch....

Ha!
 
I have a cousin who basically disowned me because I told him point blank not to waste his time trying to get me to, "come to God." I am sad at this. That living people would put an imaginary friend before other live people. My cousin is a good person, he has done more good in the world than I ever will but I fear it is for all the wrong reasons. Anyway, my previous post probably displays more than a little contempt for these deities.
 
My grandma used to always tell me; "if you drink that shit, the devils gonna get all up in your ass"

She was right...
 
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