Let's talk about Satan

Satan is neither omnipotent nor omnipresent.

One of the best things I ever heard or saw was George Burns acting like God and Satan. He, as God, said, " Oh, he always wanted to be just like me." Summed it up pretty good. Archangel that watched God do all these mighty works must have seen how some of them was done and thought he could do them just as good. There was war in Heaven. Satan and his army were cast out. That's Biblical. To try and have a notion that God is both good and evil is heresy.
 
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Why do you think he's a genius? I think that he just has the advantage of being invisible.

I think he's really good at convincing us that the evils of the world are actually good.
I think the world is becoming increasingly worse. For example, I think pornography is horrible (If you like the stuff, that's fine. Let me believe what I'd like).
Yet, more and more, pornography is all around us. I'm sorry, but the way Victoria's Secret advertises is completely inappropriate.
It not only creates the idea that girls need to look like those women do and flaunt themselves like that, but it teaches boys to want women like that, and to lust after the images VS presents.
The body of a woman is a beautiful thing that should be celebrated, not objectified and sexualized.
I personally see Satan's hand in this 101%.
Over time, we become desensitized to it and have a "whatever, no big deal" attitude about it, which is exactly what he wants.
We begin to think it's okay and justify our reasons for believing so.
 
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[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]- If I mistook your strong negative feelings as hatred apologize. I tend to confuse some emotions with hatred when they seem similar or repetitively aggressive and I'm reading text instead of being able to understand a person face to face. I agree that the church has skewed the definition of the Bible because humankind has a habit of having such about divine things. They stop listening to the Word and pick and choose what they want to believe or allow other ideations to become part of their faith. However the Word of God is perfect in my belief. I agree that Jesus dies for all sinners but the Bible says you must believe to receive the gift. 1 Tim. 4:10 is the only compelling verse you listed as all the other can be read as all sinners who receive the gift whether they be murders, rapists, or the like. I think the verse says that those who don't believe can't receive the gift but those that reject it and continue to do evil do not receive it. The in between are the ones that have never heard of the gift and have worked to receive their salvation despite not hearing about the gift or not taking it seriously. For instance Buddha's last words were to work hard to receive your salvation. Clearly he'll be going to heaven because despite not hearing of the Gift of God he strived to do what was morally right. if you believe in Jesus, which I don't believe you do, you have to accept that there is a hell. Jesus believed it was His purpose to come and save people from hell. So if there was no hell (which is punishment) in Christianity there would be no need for Salvation or attempting to live a life in accordance with Scripture and apart from sin. Also, I'm not saying that hell is a lake of fire but that it is a place of torture and punishment. I'm sure we can both agree that is what is meant when hell is referred to.

I'll look into this matter and get back to you if you like. I've often wondered what happens to those who never received the Good News. Either way I know that the wicked will be punished after this life just as it should be.
 
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For instance Buddha's last words were to work hard to receive your salvation. Clearly he'll be going to heaven because despite not hearing of the Gift of God he strived to do what was morally right. if you believe in Jesus, which I don't believe you do, you have to accept that there is a hell. Jesus believed it was His purpose to come and save people from hell. So if there was no hell (which is punishment) in Christianity there would be no need for Salvation or attempting to live a life in accordance with Scripture and apart from sin. Also, I'm not saying that hell is a lake of fire but that it is a place of torture and punishment. I'm sure we can both agree that is what is meant when hell is referred to

I don't get why the facts are being switched around?

Umm... Buddha wouldn't go to heaven. He would be reincarnated. Depending on his good or bad karma, respectively his rebirth could be a better life or a shitty one. This depends upon samsara. To be even more politically correct, Buddha doesn't even believe in Christianity so the "rules" and beliefs of Christianity is irrelevant to Buddha.

There are plenty of Christian denominations that don't believe eternal hell is a place or think it's temporary. For example, Christian Universalism (does not exist, believes external hell is against god and is created by the church with no biblical support), Christian Science (defines it as an immoral act), Jehovah's Witness (they think it's a place that houses good & bad and people can come out of it). Latter-Day Saints or Mormons (believe its a temporary 'spirit prison' and outer darkness is a permanent place where FEW people go), Unity Church (thinks its a false doctrine & a contradiction).


Also, hell and punishment aren't interchangeable. Punishment is the act and hell is considered "a place" or "state of mind". If you're using hell as a "state of mind" and say that it's the person's punishment than that's acceptable but otherwise... they're still different things. A Christian can still be punished for their immoral act and not end up in hell. Like, in Roman Catholicism... you do Reconciliation and repent your sins. Then you are cleansed of them until you commit more. This process was developed so you'd be free of sin by the time you die (they also do Reconciliation during Anointment of the Sick in case the person dies). This ensures that they can go to heaven.
 
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I don't get why the facts are being switched around?

Umm... Buddha wouldn't go to heaven. He would be reincarnated. Depending on his good or bad karma, respectively his rebirth could be a better life or a shitty one. This depends upon samsara. To be even more politically correct, Buddha doesn't even believe in Christianity so the "rules" and beliefs of Christianity is irrelevant to Buddha.

There are plenty of Christian denominations that don't believe eternal hell is a place or think it's temporary. For example, Christian Universalism (does not exist, believes external hell is against god and is created by the church with no biblical support), Christian Science (defines it as an immoral act), Jehovah's Witness (they think it's a place that houses good & bad and people can come out of it). Latter-Day Saints or Mormons (believe its a temporary 'spirit prison' and outer darkness is a permanent place where FEW people go), Unity Church (thinks its a false doctrine & a contradiction).


Also, hell and punishment aren't interchangeable. Punishment is the act and hell is considered "a place" or "state of mind". If you're using hell as a "state of mind" and say that it's the person's punishment than that's acceptable but otherwise... they're still different things. A Christian can still be punished for their immoral act and not end up in hell.

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41

IDRC what other Christians believe apart from the Word of God. The Bible disagrees with those beliefs. It says hell is eternal. As for Buddha being reincarnated, you're enforcing your view vs. the Biblical one that all faiths are true for whoever believes them or that reincarnation is the ultimate truth. Either way these views are not Biblical and therefore not a part of the discussion.

As for hell being a place or a punishment I'm saying being put in the place of hell is punishment. Hopefully that clears things up.
 
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Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41

IDRC what other Christians believe apart from the Word of God. The Bible disagrees with those beliefs. It says hell is eternal. As for Buddha being reincarnated, you're enforcing your view vs. the Biblical one that all faiths are true for whoever believes them or that reincarnation is the ultimate truth. Either way these views are not Biblical and therefore not a part of the discussion.

Yet, there are several denominations that aren't fundamentally tied to the bible and use it as more of a reference point.

I'm not enforcing my view. These are the facts. Facts are irrefutable. They talk about Buddha & reincarnation here: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm

So why include an example of Buddha if you say it's not Biblical and irrelevant to the discussion. Do you see your contradiction?
 
I'm coming from the reference point that the Bible is wholly true and divine in nature. The very Word of God. "These are the facts" as you put it. The Word of God says it's wholly true. If you believe otherwise you are not believing the Word of God or what Jehovah/Jesus teaches. You are forming your own reality. If you believe the Bible is a reference point for morals instead of believing it is the truth then you don't really believe in the Bible, just the ideas it represents.

As for the Buddha thing, I was giving an example of how those who have never heard of Jesus might be saved. You're right, this isn't Biblical. If it makes you feel more comfortable I'll say "a moral man who obeys his conscience." Does that sound better to you?
 
I'm coming from the reference point that the Bible is wholly true and divine in nature. The very Word of God. "These are the facts" as you put it. The Word of God says it's wholly true. If you believe otherwise you are not believing the Word of God or what Jehovah/Jesus teaches. You are forming your own reality. If you believe the Bible is a reference point for morals instead of believing it is the truth then you don't really believe in the Bible, just the ideas it represents.

As for the Buddha thing, I was giving an example of how those who have never heard of Jesus might be saved. You're right, this isn't Biblical. If it makes you feel more comfortable I'll say "a moral man who obeys his conscience." Does that sound better to you?

So you are saying that all the other denominations that deem the Bible as more of a reference really don't believe the Bible is truth?

It's more objective when you put it in that matter and not saturated by bias, yes.


What is your denomination?
 
So you are saying that all the other denominations that deem the Bible as more of a reference really don't believe the Bible is truth?

It's more objective when you put it in that matter and not saturated by bias, yes.


What is your denomination?

It was objective either way because I was referring to the same principle, you just interpreted it as bias.

I don't have a denomination. I just believe the Bible is true. And if people believe things that disagree with the Bible then, yes, logically they don't believe the Bible is the truth.
 
@Skarekrow- If I mistook your strong negative feelings as hatred apologize. I tend to confuse some emotions with hatred when they seem similar or repetitively aggressive and I'm reading text instead of being able to understand a person face to face. I agree that the church has skewed the definition of the Bible because humankind has a habit of having such about divine things. They stop listening to the Word and pick and choose what they want to believe or allow other ideations to become part of their faith. However the Word of God is perfect in my belief. I agree that Jesus dies for all sinners but the Bible says you must believe to receive the gift. 1 Tim. 4:10 is the only compelling verse you listed as all the other can be read as all sinners who receive the gift whether they be murders, rapists, or the like. I think the verse says that those who don't believe can't receive the gift but those that reject it and continue to do evil do not receive it. The in between are the ones that have never heard of the gift and have worked to receive their salvation despite not hearing about the gift or not taking it seriously. For instance Buddha's last words were to work hard to receive your salvation. Clearly he'll be going to heaven because despite not hearing of the Gift of God he strived to do what was morally right. if you believe in Jesus, which I don't believe you do, you have to accept that there is a hell. Jesus believed it was His purpose to come and save people from hell. So if there was no hell (which is punishment) in Christianity there would be no need for Salvation or attempting to live a life in accordance with Scripture and apart from sin. Also, I'm not saying that hell is a lake of fire but that it is a place of torture and punishment. I'm sure we can both agree that is what is meant when hell is referred to.

I'll look into this matter and get back to you if you like. I've often wondered what happens to those who never received the Good News. Either way I know that the wicked will be punished after this life just as it should be.

I was not honestly attacking your beliefs or those of anyone else....this, and other threads like it are discussions, debates...not personal attacks.
Perhaps people do have to believe to receive the gift of salvation...but why cannot that take place after our death? It doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible that it must be in our physical lifetime. An act of faith you say perhaps? Who or what type of deity needs you to prove anything to them if they are ascribed to have the attributes that the Judeo-Christian God....God supposedly knows the hearts of man...so why make us jump through flaming hoops? For the promise of salvation that can neither be proven or disproven to exist? So he wants us to prove our worthiness...to prove our loyalty...for what purpose? Those are things that thugs and bullies make someone do. To have faith is the personal strength of belief...and not everyone is wired to have faith.
How many in this world have cried out in pain, hunger, disease, etc...in this world...cried out to God and gotten not so much as a peep in return?
If we truly do have “free-will” then that would make sense....that God would not intervene, even if he should want to....that would have been the deal, and coming down here we would have agreed to that....that makes sense to me. But to say that we have “free will” and that God is an intervening God is contradictory.
And I do think that all sinners will be forgiven. I believe that our punishment will be the realization of our sins once the “veil” has been lifted from our eyes...the knowing of what we have done, and what we should have been doing. Do you really feel that someone who is considered a sociopath...who has actual physical differences in their brain changing the way they feel emotions and empathy...someone who had terrible things done to them that turned them into a monster is fully culpable of the sins they commit? How about your feelings on homosexuality [MENTION=5383]Hazard[/MENTION]? Is it a choice or can you accept the scientific general consensus that they are born that way? My older brother was assaulted, spit-on, called names, and generally ostracized in HS for being gay...he wasn’t even the type you would have guessed was gay...and you know what, he is a far more wonderful, giving, and kind person than half of those who call themselves “Christian”. Those are the types of things that people see as hypocritical...it was Jesus who talked and cared for the outcasts of society...the poor, the prostitutes, the diseased...he didn’t just go to church on Sunday, patted himself on the back and then spend the rest of the week as some asshole salesman trying to make as much money as possible to buy more things they don’t really need...to ignore the homeless guy with his hand out on the street...to flip someone off in traffic because they cut him off...I think you get my point. Those are NOT the teachings and examples of Jesus. There are very few churches who actually really follow his teachings...most churches are focused on the great corruptor money. Look at the Vatican for example...really? Those riches are a necessary thing? How many people could be helped in the world with the riches the Vatican owns? The TV evangelist who tells people when they call in to send their last $100 to the show instead of buying food for their children...yes, it happened, I can post the video if you like. And then you come to the exclusivity of the churches and denominations...each one is the only path to Heaven...you can’t be Gay and be a good person...how even if you grew up Muslim and die a Muslim but were a good and kind person, you can’t go to Heaven.
To me, God isn’t like that...God is all love like they say he is...even to the rapists and murderers...because after we die, those things will no longer matter at all. God is absent because that is the deal we made when we came here...we came here to learn, to love, perhaps it’s different for each person...but you cannot learn without “free will” and you cannot have free will and still have God intervene. I don’t believe that there is a Hell not only because I don’t feel God is that cruel and vengeful, but also because our knowledge has been hidden from us...you cannot get angry and punish someone for running into a parked car when you are the one who put a blindfold on them, even if you are helping them to go the right way.
 
I was not honestly attacking your beliefs or those of anyone else....this, and other threads like it are discussions, debates...not personal attacks.
Perhaps people do have to believe to receive the gift of salvation...but why cannot that take place after our death? It doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible that it must be in our physical lifetime. An act of faith you say perhaps? Who or what type of deity needs you to prove anything to them if they are ascribed to have the attributes that the Judeo-Christian God....God supposedly knows the hearts of man...so why make us jump through flaming hoops? For the promise of salvation that can neither be proven or disproven to exist? So he wants us to prove our worthiness...to prove our loyalty...for what purpose? Those are things that thugs and bullies make someone do. To have faith is the personal strength of belief...and not everyone is wired to have faith.
How many in this world have cried out in pain, hunger, disease, etc...in this world...cried out to God and gotten not so much as a peep in return?
If we truly do have “free-will” then that would make sense....that God would not intervene, even if he should want to....that would have been the deal, and coming down here we would have agreed to that....that makes sense to me. But to say that we have “free will” and that God is an intervening God is contradictory.
And I do think that all sinners will be forgiven. I believe that our punishment will be the realization of our sins once the “veil” has been lifted from our eyes...the knowing of what we have done, and what we should have been doing. Do you really feel that someone who is considered a sociopath...who has actual physical differences in their brain changing the way they feel emotions and empathy...someone who had terrible things done to them that turned them into a monster is fully culpable of the sins they commit? How about your feelings on homosexuality [MENTION=5383]Hazard[/MENTION]? Is it a choice or can you accept the scientific general consensus that they are born that way? My older brother was assaulted, spit-on, called names, and generally ostracized in HS for being gay...he wasn’t even the type you would have guessed was gay...and you know what, he is a far more wonderful, giving, and kind person than half of those who call themselves “Christian”. Those are the types of things that people see as hypocritical...it was Jesus who talked and cared for the outcasts of society...the poor, the prostitutes, the diseased...he didn’t just go to church on Sunday, patted himself on the back and then spend the rest of the week as some asshole salesman trying to make as much money as possible to buy more things they don’t really need...to ignore the homeless guy with his hand out on the street...to flip someone off in traffic because they cut him off...I think you get my point. Those are NOT the teachings and examples of Jesus. There are very few churches who actually really follow his teachings...most churches are focused on the great corruptor money. Look at the Vatican for example...really? Those riches are a necessary thing? How many people could be helped in the world with the riches the Vatican owns? The TV evangelist who tells people when they call in to send their last $100 to the show instead of buying food for their children...yes, it happened, I can post the video if you like. And then you come to the exclusivity of the churches and denominations...each one is the only path to Heaven...you can’t be Gay and be a good person...how even if you grew up Muslim and die a Muslim but were a good and kind person, you can’t go to Heaven.
To me, God isn’t like that...God is all love like they say he is...even to the rapists and murderers...because after we die, those things will no longer matter at all. God is absent because that is the deal we made when we came here...we came here to learn, to love, perhaps it’s different for each person...but you cannot learn without “free will” and you cannot have free will and still have God intervene. I don’t believe that there is a Hell not only because I don’t feel God is that cruel and vengeful, but also because our knowledge has been hidden from us...you cannot get angry and punish someone for running into a parked car when you are the one who put a blindfold on them, even if you are helping them to go the right way.

A sociopath can receive God's gift of Salvation just like anyone else can. He's a sinner like all the rest although a very cruel and sadistic one. Also he knows right from wrong, sociopaths realize that they're actions are harmful they just don't give a shit and hurt people for fun and for their own personal gain anyway. As for homosexuality my beliefs are strictly Biblical in regards to that and I don't really care if science says it's natural. Romans 1:26-27 There's lots of things that are natural in science that are deemed bad through the Bible. I prefer not to get into these topics because they're deeply personal. Homosexuality is for you and sociopathy is for me. I just thought I'd give you the Biblical viewpoint.

There is proof of God's gift of Salvation. It's the Word of God, the prophecies and the miracles themselves all recorded and documented in the Book itself. If you don't see this as proof that's fine. But blind faith isn't faith, it's delusion. Faith is believing in something you haven't seen because you've seen proof of something more. You ask why Salvation can't take place after death. I ask, why must it? What are you waiting for? You have this life. Why count on having a second one and not count on the fact that God's giving you a chance for a second one?

Seeing similarities between God and a thug or bully just because he requires you to believe in Him is ridiculous. If you weren't blaspheming him before then you are now. Faith is a deeply spiritual concept. I can only assume that God requires us to have faith for His own spiritual reasons. I can almost guarantee He has a reason for it though. He's not going to make people jump through "flaming hoops" as you put it for fun.

As for the reason God allows for pain, death, disease, famine, etc. He didn't create the world like this. Man did in the Garden of Eden. We live in an imperfect world because of sin. God didn't create the world to be full of evil things originally. It wasn't in his Plan.

As for the rest of your post it sounds to me like you despise the church and Christians more than the belief and God himself. Christians are evil screwed up sinners and the church has been destroyed because of them. I'm not going to disagree with you, it sucks and it goes against God's Plan.

Try to type in paragraphs. I can't get to all your information because it's just one long train of thought. I need more order to get to everything.
 
A sociopath can receive God's gift of Salvation just like anyone else can. He's a sinner like all the rest although a very cruel and sadistic one. Also he knows right from wrong, sociopaths realize that they're actions are harmful they just don't give a shit and hurt people for fun and for their own personal gain anyway. As for homosexuality my beliefs are strictly Biblical in regards to that and I don't really care if science says it's natural. Romans 1:26-27 There's lots of things that are natural in science that are deemed bad through the Bible. I prefer not to get into these topics because they're deeply personal. Homosexuality is for you and sociopathy is for me. I just thought I'd give you the Biblical viewpoint.

There is proof of God's gift of Salvation. It's the Word of God, the prophecies and the miracles themselves all recorded and documented in the Book itself. If you don't see this as proof that's fine. But blind faith isn't faith, it's delusion. Faith is believing in something you haven't seen because you've seen proof of something more. You ask why Salvation can't take place after death. I ask, why must it? What are you waiting for? You have this life. Why count on having a second one and not count on the fact that God's giving you a chance for a second one?

Seeing similarities between God and a thug or bully just because he requires you to believe in Him is ridiculous. If you weren't blaspheming him before then you are now. Faith is a deeply spiritual concept. I can only assume that God requires us to have faith for His own spiritual reasons. I can almost guarantee He has a reason for it though. He's not going to make people jump through "flaming hoops" as you put it for fun.

As for the reason God allows for pain, death, disease, famine, etc. He didn't create the world like this. Man did in the Garden of Eden. We live in an imperfect world because of sin. God didn't create the world to be full of evil things originally. It wasn't in his Plan.

As for the rest of your post it sounds to me like you despise the church and Christians more than the belief and God himself. Christians are evil screwed up sinners and the church has been destroyed because of them. I'm not going to disagree with you, it sucks and it goes against God's Plan.

Try to type in paragraphs. I can't get to all your information because it's just one long train of thought. I need more order to get to everything.

Lol...firstly, I’m not gay, my older brother is...but I don’t feel God will punish my brother for it in any instance. I do believe in God, but I do not believe that the Bible has remained untainted by, as you said “evil screwed up sinners” who omitted parts that belonged there, inserted parts that didn’t, and changed things to fit their needs and desires. This has been proven again and again but is often ignored by most Christians because admitting to even one thing being changed or omitted etc. in the Bible can open a Pandora’s box of errors. So instead they walk around and look silly...I guess that is their choice.
There are very few things in the Bible, especially the miracles, that have any historical proof whatsoever...yes, I do believe Jesus was alive, and preached, and was crucified...but other than that I cannot say for sure.

Why did all these “miracles” take place in biblical times and somehow as our records go better and better historically the miracles seemed to drop-off and are now all but existent? You don’t think that some of the famous “miracles” were perhaps stories, parables to make a point? That perhaps the miracles of such parables became attributed to certain people because it gave them more weight. Why don’t we still have prophets in modern days? Those who God speaks directly to...I’m not talking about a warm and fuzzy feeling after praying....or the coincidental butterfly flitting by that we interpret by a stretch as a “message”. I mean someone whom God says “Hello Bob.” and Bob says “Hey there God! How was your golf game yesterday?”
Why not? Did God give up trying to give us rules and direction? To show us his existence through miracles that used to be preformed by the prophets...did he just get bored with humanity...if he isn’t apathetic to humanity and he isn’t an absent God....if he helps us, then where are the grand performances that he used to conduct?
We should have faith? He should help humanity have faith.

I have to have more than a book that has been altered over thousands of years to have faith....you say blind faith isn’t faith - it’s delusion...well, I’m not deluded....my own mind doesn’t allow me to just have baseless faith. I am too logically and scientifically thinking to do that. It would be nice...but no matter how I try to have faith in such things, it isn’t there. I always question...I cannot stop questioning....and they way I see things it’s okay to do that. To question is to doubt, even Jesus had his moment of doubt in the Garden before being crucified, and again while on the cross. If Jesus can doubt then why can we not question and doubt ourselves?
You see, I know in my heart (as does God) what I have thought, questioned, and felt...and I have no doubt that my faith, or lack thereof, is through no fault of my own.

I still don’t get the reasoning of the Garden of Eden...it is a nonsensical story with no moral, no purpose. God make Adam from clay, makes Eve from his rib, puts them into paradise and tells them to do whatever except not to eat the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil (which he created, which would imply he also created evil), then a “serpent” whom he also created comes and tempts Eve, who eats the apple...would have gained the knowledge, but yet still gives it to Adam...and so as a result of them “sinning” even though he dangled the tree in their faces, he punishes them and all of humanity from then of with being ashamed and cast out of paradise.
If God didn’t create the world to be full of evil things then you are either saying that he failed...or that he is not the loving God he is said to be, by punishing ALL of humanity for the sins of the Father.

A true sociopath understands right from wrong only because they have been taught the rules of society...they lack a sense of moral responsibility or social conscious.
What to say of someone who is beyond that, who is truly mentally ill? Someone who cannot grasp religion...or someone who is too fucked in the head to make moral decisions?

As for waiting to “find my salvation” don’t think that I am not trying...but like I said before...my mind doesn’t seem to want to let me “let go” and just have faith....I DO believe in a afterlife...I DO believe in God...but even those are constant battles for me. I’m not just having this discussion to be blasphemous, or to irritate you, or to try and get the upper hand...these are questions I am always trying to find honest, logical, sensible answers to.
 
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Not trying to mock Christianity...but this mentality is what I cannot adhere to. We should question...I’m sure God wants us to question, why else give us minds set up to question our existence?
 
For me the search for faith was trying to prove that God does exist rather than questioning and searching for why he doesn't exist. I came to Him through less than normal circumstances, rather miraculous really, so I can't blame you for you doubt. Just for your lack of searching. I searched hard. Once you have the ability to say, "this is possible." That's when you let go of doubt and simply believe. You have to go from a position of doubt and proving wrong to a position of faith and proving right. Stop searching for questions and start searching for answers.

We do have prophets now a days. It's just that so many people don't believe in anything supernatural that the prophecy doesn't go outside of a specific church usually. The Bible teaches that prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit. I've personally preformed miracles myself and watched others do them as well/heard other's testimonies about miracles.

As far as the Bible being skewed and tempered with, someone found the Dead Sea scrolls awhile back. I don't have the source. Basically it was a few thousand year old scroll that correlated directly with today's Bible. So I believe it hasn't been tempered with.

Jesus never doubted before His death. He simply asked God to "pass the cup" or the purpose to another because he knew the pain and the rejection that would come would be so great.

Whether you believe the story of the Garden of Eden is false or not it definitely has a purpose. It teaches us so much about God, Satan, and humanity. It's one of my favorite passages in the Bible. God the Father didn't sin. He did create paradise. Satan was evil and came to earth to put an evil thought in Eve's head. They probably wouldn't have disobeyed God otherwise.

I just realized Solomon asked God for the ability to discern good from evil. Also, the tree bore the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Interesting correlation considering Solomon was said to be the wisest man on earth ever before and ever after. There was evil in the garden but we had no knowledge of it. Satan was there and tempted/confused us. We were naked and unashamed. We were innocent. Also the phrase, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" suggests that we can sin without knowing it. I'll have to think about that more.
 
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Not trying to mock Christianity...but this mentality is what I cannot adhere to. We should question...I’m sure God wants us to question, why else give us minds set up to question our existence?

I think she almost had it right. She reversed it though.

It isn't "don't ask questions, you'll be confused"

Rather it is "don't give answers that you don't actually know about"
 
[MENTION=5383]Hazard[/MENTION] are you God?

My guess is no.

Then why do people always resort to the reaction that we are blaspheming, or hating God, or trying to prove that God doesn't exist, or that we are spiteful and not seeking God?

Last I checked, we aren't arguing with God. We're arguing with YOU. We don't think we know better than God. We just think that you might be wrong.

I don't think it is God that you worship. As far as I can tell you might not even really believe in God.

No. What I think you worship is your own feeling of being elucidated and the desire to grab onto something, anything, to preserve your sanity and reason for living.

That's what I think about you as it relates to God. You aren't defending or preaching for God, you're doing it for you.
 
Saying that God is a bully or thug and that Satan was right in rebelling against Him is blasphemy. I believe in God. I'm discussing God to help others with their search for Him, not for myself, but for God's glory. Letting go of God would be losing me sanity though. Ghandi- "Without my faith in God I would be a raving maniac." I used to not believe in God and I created a purpose or reason for being for myself. So your assessment of me is wrong.
 
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Saying that God is a bully or thug and that Satan was right in rebelling against Him is blasphemy. I believe in God. I'm discussing God to help others with their search for Him, not for myself, but for God's glory. Letting go of God would be losing me sanity though. Ghandi- "Without my faith in God I would be a raving maniac." I used to not believe in God and I created a purpose or reason for being for myself. So your assessment of me is wrong.

That's not what you originally wrote.

Go with the first version. It's more truthful!
 
[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] you cling to logic as your source of purpose and sanity. I rely on faith. It's just two different perspectives. I like you. No need to get personal. What did I originally say?
 
[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] you cling to logic as your source of purpose and sanity. I rely on faith. It's just two different perspectives. I like you. No need to get personal. What did I originally say?

Something like:
"Just like you keep telling me, you are WRONG!"

Not sure if those are the precise words but the meaning is identical.

I feel this is the truthful reaction. I was wrong to treat you that way. However I still feel that you are also wrong.

This is not logic, this is intuition.
 
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