[INFJ] This will make you rage

Why don't people protest against his re election on the party level? Can democrats as in the people protest against a chosen candidate? Like protest against the choice of hilary over sanders. Smth like that. Statesmen are so rare nowadays.

It wouldn't happen anyway. Both parties are owned by the super rich and they just do whatever they please basically.
He didn't even win majority in the first place and his win involved a significant amount of gerrymandering to pull off.
So there are movements to change that, but again things are just slow.
Both parties are in need of reform and money goes toward keeping things the same.
That's why it's Biden. He's no improvement, but people will just be so relieved the other guy isn't in office if he does manage to win.
It's a two party system and both parties are just controlled by the super rich.
That's what needs to change, fundamentally.
But that won't change racism.
Racism will always exist, but our reactions to it and responsibility towards being proactive about it can change.
 
It wouldn't happen anyway. Both parties are owned by the super rich and they just do whatever they please basically.
He didn't even win majority in the first place and his win involved a significant amount of gerrymandering to pull off.
So there are movements to change that, but again things are just slow.
Both parties are in need of reform and money goes toward keeping things the same.
That's why it's Biden. He's no improvement, but people will just be so relieved the other guy isn't in office if he does manage to win.
It's a two party system and both parties are just controlled by the super rich.
That's what needs to change, fundamentally.
But that won't change racism.
Racism will always exist, but our reactions to it and responsibility towards being proactive about it can change.
Money and power are inseparable. Tale as old as time. How plausible would a revolutionary government be in America today?

Yes, racism will always exist. I wonder if it's hardwired biologically. The unknown and strange other is always daunting.
 
How plausible would a revolutionary government be in America today?

Americans are too overworked and under fed for revolution.
I mean look what's happening right now.
This probably should be some kind of revolution, but we're tired and busy and something about a pandemic.
 
Americans are too overworked and under fed for revolution.
I mean look what's happening right now.
This probably should be some kind of revolution, but we're tired and busy and something about a pandemic.

More statues are being removed and reform is taking place, so it is kind of a small revolution.
Again, change is just slow.
 
Sounds pretty.... regular? Lol So what happened after the news aired? Did the protestors just give up, go home and never speak of it again?
Lol no, it was just accepted as part of the movement. At the time, the momentum around Jeremy Corbyn was at its peak, as was outrage against bankers and the Conservative Party (Grenfell Tower had just burned down) - I never went to a protest that turned violent because the base was so broad.

The problem with the Black Bloc is that they are there to try to make things violent if they can pull it off - they have a whole articulated ideology about symbolic property damage and political violence, &c., but nobody among the popular movement has the authority to throw then out if a peaceful protest is the aim.

On the other hand... peaceful protests are pretty easy to control and don't really do jack shit without being attached to real political representation. You have to have a functional democracy in the first place for them to have any real impact.

I'll never understand the 'white guilt'. There are some fuckers that outta be ashamed of themselves, but others have nothing to be guilty about. I have no guilt. I'm proud of my whiteness! (<That's a joke) Not having guilt or being against 'white guilt' or whatever is still no reason to not acknowledge the issue and listen. I'll never understand how that many people decided to kneel and do what they did. Guess everyone needs to hang it up. The war is over...
'White guilt' is a real phenomenon, but it's another one of those terms that can be used to de-legitimise solidarity, just like 'virtue signalling' and I suppose 'cuckoldry'/all the rest if we're talking feminism. Political slurs really have become very sophisticated indeed, because people actively try to avoid these labels by limiting their political activity. Political affiliation can be easily controlled in this age simply by making insinuations harmful to the ego. It's kind of pathetic to be honest with you.

'White guilt'? Fuck off. Irrelevant.

It's fine. The power structure will remain in tact and people will just move on. This is kinda what we do here.
But incrementally, things do change for the better. It's just very, very slow.
We are powerless wage slaves in the US. Nothing more really.
But hopefully we can all treat each other a little better for a while now.

I do have fears about elections this year. As long as we can get through that, we'll be fine.
Even if he's re-elected, which is entirely possible.
It wouldn't happen anyway. Both parties are owned by the super rich and they just do whatever they please basically.
He didn't even win majority in the first place and his win involved a significant amount of gerrymandering to pull off.
So there are movements to change that, but again things are just slow.
Both parties are in need of reform and money goes toward keeping things the same.
That's why it's Biden. He's no improvement, but people will just be so relieved the other guy isn't in office if he does manage to win.
It's a two party system and both parties are just controlled by the super rich.
That's what needs to change, fundamentally.
But that won't change racism.
Racism will always exist, but our reactions to it and responsibility towards being proactive about it can change.
Money and power are inseparable. Tale as old as time. How plausible would a revolutionary government be in America today?
Like Wy is saying, the US never had a proper labour movement and so both parties are simply different flavours of capital representation.

Europeans are lucky in that we have political parties that are largely funded through trade unions and membership subs. They're not really 'owned' by anyone except the members, though right-wing media will attempt to de-legitimise the trade union link. This is why Bernie Sanders' campaign funding model was so important and shouldn't have been mocked at all.

Unfortunately, organising labour in the US seems exceedingly difficult so it's probably going to be stuck with this two-party ruling-class paternalism for at least another generation.

Yes, racism will always exist. I wonder if it's hardwired biologically. The unknown and strange other is always daunting.
The best documentary I've seen about this is Adam Curtis' All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace, Episode 3.

I can't find a video link, but here's Wikipedia's description:
Part 3. 'The Monkey in the Machine and the Machine in the Monkey'[edit]
This episode looks into the selfish gene theory invented by William Hamilton, which holds that humans are machines controlled by genes. Curtis also covers the source of ethnic conflict that was created by Belgian colonialism's artificial creation of a racial divide and the ensuing slaughter that occurred in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is a source of raw material for computers and cell phones.

In the 1930s, Armand Denis made films that told the world about Africa. However, his documentary gave fanciful stories about Rwanda's Tutsis being a noble ruling elite originally from Egypt, whereas the Hutus were a peasant race. In reality, they were racially the same, but the Belgian rulers had ruthlessly exploited the myth to divide the Rwandan people. But when it came to independence, liberal Belgians felt guilty, and decided the Hutus should overthrow the Tutsi rule. This led to a bloodbath, as the Tutsis were then seen as aliens and were slaughtered.

In 1960, Congo had become independent from Belgium, but governance promptly collapsed, and towns became battle grounds as soldiers fought for control of the mines. America and the Belgians organised a coup, and the elected leader, Patrice Lumumba, was kidnapped and executed, causing chaos. However, the Western mining operations were initially largely unaffected. Mobutu Sese Seko was installed as president, killed his opponents and stopped a liberal democracy from forming. Mobutu changed the Congo's name to Zaire, looting millions of dollars and letting mines and industries collapse.

In Congo, with a civil war ongoing, Dian Fossey, who was researching gorillas, was captured. She escaped and created a new camp high up on a mountain in Rwanda, where she continued to study gorillas. She tried to completely protect the gorillas, which were very susceptible to human diseases and were hated because they terrorised the local people. Fossey sabotaged the local people's traps and tried to terrorise them by claiming to cast spells on them. Ultimately, Fossey's favourite gorilla, Digit, was killed by the vengeful locals. Curtis draws a parallel between Fossey and the colonialists who oppressed the Congolese, describing her as one of many westerners who brutalised and terrorised African peoples for their own high-minded ideals.


John von Neumann in the 1940s
Bill Hamilton was a solitary man who saw everything through the lens of Darwin's theory of evolution. When he wanted to know why some ants and humans give up their life for others. In 1963, he realised that most of the behaviours of humans were due to genes, and he began looking at humans from the genes' point of view. From this perspective, humans were machines that were only important for carrying genes, and it made sense for a gene to sacrifice a human if it meant that another copy of the gene would survive. In 1967, American chemist George R. Price went to London after reading Hamilton's little-known papers and discovering that his equations for the behaviours of genes were equivalent to computers equations. He was able to show that these equations explained murder, warfare, suicide, goodness and spite, since these actions could help the genes. John von Neumann had invented self-reproducing machines, but Price was able to show that the self-reproducing machines were already in existence — humans were such machines.

These revelations had a enormous effect on Price. Previously a staunch rationalist, Price began to believe that these equations had been given to him by God, even though some argue that they are evidence against the existence of God. In 1973, after converting to extreme Christianity as a last chance to disprove the selfish gene theories' gloomy conclusions, Price decided to start helping poor and homeless people, giving away all his possessions in acts of random kindness. These efforts utterly failed, and he came to believe that he was being followed by the hound of heaven. He finally revealed, in his suicide note, that these acts of altruism brought more harm than good to the lives of homeless people. Richard Dawkins later took Hamilton and Price's equations and popularised them, explaining that humans are simply machines created by the selfish genes. Curtis likens this to ""reinventing the immortal soul," but as computer code in the form of the genes.


President Mobutu
In 1994, the ruling Hutu government set out to eradicate the Tutsi minority. This was explained as incomprehensible ancient rivalry by the Western press. In reality it was due to the Belgian myth created during the colonial rule. Western agencies got involved, and the Tutsi fought back, creating chaos. Many flooded across the border into Zaire, and the Tutsi invaded the refugee camps to get revenge. Mobutu fell from power. Troops arrived from many countries, allegedly to help, but in reality to gain access to the country's natural resources, used to produce consumer goods for the West. Altogether, 4.5 million people were killed.

By this point Hamilton was well-honoured. However, by now he supported eugenics and believed that the help provided to the ill and disabled by modern medicine was counter to the logic of genes. He heard a story that HIV had been created from an accident with a polio vaccine, which it was thought could have been contaminated with a chimp virus. This supported his idea that modern medicine could have negative consequences. Hamilton travelled to Kisangani in the Democratic Republic of the Congo while the Second Congo War was raging. He went there to collect Chimpanzee faeces to test his theory that HIV was due to a medical mistake. While there he caught malaria, for which he took aspirin, which lodged in his gut, causing a haemorrhage which killed him. His hypothesis about the creation of AIDS would ultimately be entirely debunked.

Curtis ends the episode by saying that Hamilton's ideas that humans are computers controlled by the genes have become accepted wisdom. But he asks whether we have accepted a fatalistic philosophy that humans are helpless computers to explain and excuse the fact that, as in the Congo, we are effectively unable to improve and change the world.

Essentially it describes the gene-centred view of altruism, in that altruism makes sense if genes are attempting to ensure the survival of their copies in other organisms. It also predicts, therefore, that our altruism would decrease in proportion to greater distance of relatedness because less and less of our genes would be found in people more distantly related to us.

So it's not really that 'racism' is hardwired, as much as it is that altruism is by nature highly discriminatory. 'Racists' are more concerned with protecting their ingroup rather than hurting the outgroup, though of course the latter can be a useful tool of the former.

However, in human beings genes themselves only have awareness through the organism as a whole, and so the mechanisms that have evolved to promote their survival are highly imperfect. For instance, young babies and children 'imprint' an image of their tribe based upon the kinds of faces that they are exposed to in infancy - expose them to a multiracial tribe, and they'll grow up with a gut feeling that people who look like that are part of their own personal ingroup. Only expose them to members of a single ethnicity, however, and they'll have the same sense but only for these types of people.

This is why, funnily enough, representation of ethnic minorities in the media is particularly important, especially for children.

The debate is much broader than this, of course, but that's one aspect of it.
 
Europeans are lucky in that we have political parties that are largely funded through trade unions and membership subs. They're not really 'owned' by anyone except the members, though right-wing media will attempt to de-legitimise the trade union link. This is why Bernie Sanders' campaign funding model was so important and shouldn't have been mocked at all.

Once again, the super rich played a large role in organizing the media to paint him in a negative light, and Americans ate it up. He also had both parties against him. The fact that he got where he did is remarkable in itself.
 
Once again, the super rich played a large role in organizing the media to paint him in a negative light, and Americans ate it up. He also had both parties against him. The fact that he got where he did is remarkable in itself.
Yup. It's kind of amazing that anything gets done in the US at all. It's like everything hinges on the consciences of presidents put into power by the same ruling class, and the agitation of a disorganised civil society, because there's no real political base to counterbalance the influence of capital.

It's produced some results, but the lag with the rest of the developed world is just going to keep growing. I suppose it's just a shame that the system selects against new political parties (by splitting the left vote), otherwise that might've been an option to direct the energy of the current movement.
 
It's produced some results, but the lag with the rest of the developed world is just going to keep growing. I suppose it's just a shame that the system selects against new political parties (by splitting the left vote), otherwise that might've been an option to direct the energy of the current movement.

Well we did have the tea party on the right lol. I expected a similar development from the left, which may happen still, but their MO is just to become antifa I guess?? Lol.
I don't even like politics, I'm out.
 
Hoorah. It's hard for me to understand how there are people that believe that because there has been violence and rioting (mainly by those outside of the movement) that everyone should just go home. (I'm not even specifically talking about anyone in this thread) Is the black community, 'allies', everyone expected to agree and give up? It makes no sense to me...

Protest guy:
"Welp. There was some property damage and it was aired on the news, guys. Let's all go home now and continue living with injustice."

Protest group:
"Yep. You're right. We'll try again next time. See y'all in a couple weeks when another one us gets killed by the cops."


de-legitimise solidarity
Exactly. Like, anyone that believes human shouldn't be murdered by cops, is just playing identity politics, is a leftist extremist, anti-cop, country hater, and racist against whites.
 
Imagine this could be the result of a deliberate tactic set by those in power.
Yes! It's the economic oppression idea. There is no real social safety net so people absolutely have to work just to survive. Basic human needs will not be met if they do not work long hours for little pay. People live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to pay their utilities and put food on the table. When you're worried about your survival you aren't thinking about fighting back. If you don't work, you don't eat. It's a trap and it has worked for far too long. AND PEOPLE VOTE AGAINST FIXING THAT PROBLEM!!! THEY VOTE AGAINST THEMSELVES! IT'S FUCKING INSANE WHAT PEOPLE BELIEVE JUST BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THEIR 'TEAM'!!!

I think I just had a stroke...
 
People are rallying around the defunding of the police what does everyone think of that?
 
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