What Does It Take For God To Save A Sinner?

[Matt3737]

"We" don't give psychological help.

We preach the Word of God, and leave psychological matters to the secular world.

You do know there are better ways of preaching the gospel?

Is it really necessary to use insults, threats, condescension, beratement, and belligerance? I'm fairly sure those have nothing to do with preaching the gospel.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You do know there are better ways of preaching the gospel?

Is it really necessary to use insults, threats, condescension, beratement, and belligerance? I'm fairly sure those have nothing to do with preaching the gospel.

Well, here's another one: You are a hypocrite--meaning that you have no concern for the Gospel unless it suits your agenda.

If you care about the Gospel so much, why don't you learn it, believe it, and preach it yourself, instead of pretending you care about it just to pick me apart?

And here's another "threat" as you call it: Read Matthew 25. The LORD says that however you treat one of his people, he considers it done to him.

I suggest you consider the wisdom of continuing to harass me in such an unwarranted fashion.

 

[j654dgj7]

"We" don't give psychological help.

Completely agreed. What you call therapy and self-examination isn't any help at all.

We preach the Word of God, and leave psychological matters to the secular world.

No you don't, because:

Most so-called "psychological disorders" are just sin anyway. Like the self-absorbed, narcissistic sense of entitlement which most of you exhibit in this thread.

See?

First of all, you assume the universe is a democracy, and that Almighty GOD has to get your permission before he can do anything.

No I don't.

Then you expect total strangers to answer your questions when you're totally belligerent and insulting.

I don't expect anything from anybody. I asked you questions about faith and you told me that my beliefs were wrong. You could've not answered, I wouldn't have cared one bit.

That's really a sin issue, but if you won't deal with it as a sin issue, then you ought to at least get psychological help.

Who says I'm not? What do you care? Why do you pretend like you care at all?

Honestly, if you had the slightest clue how unreasonable you're acting, you'd bury your head in shame.

When you can't respect that people can interpret a religious document in different ways and get different conclusions out of them, I officially don't care what your opinions are any longer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Completely agreed. What you call therapy and self-examination isn't any help at all.

I don't know who you think "we" are, but we don't offer anything called "therapy", and the only self-examination we talk about is the Biblical instruction to "examine yourselves as to whether you're in the faith." (2 Cor. 13:5)

Who says I'm not? What do you care? Why do you pretend like you care at all?

I do care, or I wouldn't waste my time.

I feel genuinely sorry for you and everyone else who's fighting so hard against the Word of God.

And I feel sorry for anyone who has genuine psychological problems.

I am an INFJ, you know. We are kind of naturally empathetic/sympathetic.

I know it helps you more to dehumanize me, but really, I am a particularly empathetic/sympathetic person.

When you can't respect that people can interpret a religious document in different ways and get different conclusions out of them, I officially don't care what your opinions are any longer.

Well, unfortunately, there is such a thing as truth and error, and I'll just have to deal with the consequences of standing for truth.

 

[Matt3737]

Well, here's another one: You are a hypocrite--meaning that you have no concern for the Gospel unless it suits your agenda.

If you care about the Gospel so much, why don't you learn it, believe it, and preach it yourself, instead of pretending you care about it just to pick me apart?

And here's another "threat" as you call it: Read Matthew 25. The LORD says that however you treat one of his people, he considers it done to him.

I suggest you consider the wisdom of continuing to harass me in such an unwarranted fashion.

I am not the one proselytizing, nor do I consider myself a hypocrite given that I do not proselytize for the faith. My faith is my own and is beyond reproach. If I am to answer to my maker, it will be only that their will be done.

I do not consider my harassment of you unwarranted given that you have initiated harassment of the members of this forum and continue to do so without holding yourself to the same standard. You speak of the sinful natures of others, but what of your own?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am not the one proselytizing, nor do I consider myself a hypocrite given that I do not proselytize for the faith. My faith is my own and is beyond reproach. If I am to answer to my maker, it will be only that their will be done.

I do not consider my harassment of you unwarranted given that you have initiated harassment of the members of this forum and continue to do so without holding yourself to the same standard. You speak of the sinful natures of others, but what of your own?

I have not harassed anyone. I've made doctrinal statements. And doctrinal statements are not personal insults.

And it's not a personal attack to say you're a narcissist and need professional help if you expect someone to answer your every question. It's just a fact that you have an unreasonable sense of entitlement, and it's even more obvious when you think ALMIGHTY GOD owes you answers.

And you know very well I've never denied being a sinner. I've stated over and over again that all human beings, other than Christ, are nothing but sinners by nature.

That's one of the main things I'm being bashed for, remember?

 

[sprinkles]

I do care, or I wouldn't waste my time.

I feel genuinely sorry for you and everyone else who's fighting so hard against the Word of God.

And I feel sorry for anyone who has genuine psychological problems.

I am an INFJ, you know. We are kind of naturally empathetic/sympathetic.

I know it helps you more to dehumanize me, but really, I am a particularly empathetic/sympathetic person.

Well, unfortunately, there is such a thing as truth and error, and I'll just have to deal with the consequences of standing for truth.

What happened to the evil will of man, predestination, and God overpowering it?

You're bringing in volition here once again, which still is contradictory to your own view and makes no sense.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What happened to the evil will of man, predestination, and God overpowering it?

You're bringing in volition here once again, which still is contradictory to your own view and makes no sense.

There is no contradiction.

I never said people LACK VOLITION, just that their volition is naturally evil.

Everything we do is tainted by sin. And yes, God USES our sin for his own purposes. Such as using wicked men to crucify his Son, so that sinners would be saved through him.

See? It's not that hard to understand if you just give it the tiniest bit of thought.

But you know WHY you won't do that? Because your WILL is UTTERLY against God, and so you SUPRESS what you KNOW is the truth.

If God ever saves you, you'll stop fighting against it, and you'll gladly bow to the truth.

 

[Matt3737]

I have not harassed anyone. People shouldn't take doctrinal statements as personal insults.

And it's not a personal attack to say you're a narcissist and need professional help if you expect someone to answer your every question. It's just a fact that you have issues, and it's even more obvious when you think ALMIGHTY GOD owes you answers.

And you know very well I've never denied being a sinner. I've stated over and over again that all human beings, other than Christ, are nothing but sinners by nature.

That's one of the main things I'm being bashed for, remember?

You have a short memory. I don't expect or demand answers, though I am insistent. I pose questions for my own understanding and you answer because of your need to proselytize. You have put yourself into that position by stating that you, by proxy of having the correct interpretation of the Bible, have all the answers.

You are being bashed for how you convey your answers, which is very rude by the way.

I might attempt to tell you that 2+2=4 and if you disagree then you are a worthless piece of shit. It is, quite frankly, unnecessary.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have a short memory. I don't expect or demand answers, though I am insistent. I pose questions for my own understanding and you answer because of your need to proselytize. You have put yourself into that position by stating that you, by proxy of having the correct interpretation of the Bible, have all the answers.

You are being bashed for how you convey your answers, which is very rude by the way.

I might attempt to tell you that 2+2=4 and if you disagree then you are a worthless piece of shit. It is, quite frankly, unnecessary.

Man, look.....

You know very well it's not HOW I'm saying it.

There is no way to tell people they're LOST and on their way to Hell without upsetting and offending their ego.

So, it wouldn't matter how sweetly I said it to them, they're going to get upset anyway.

And if you think that means I should just pretend they're NOT lost, then I'm afraid I just have to disagree.

 

[Matt3737]

God USES our sin for his own purposes. Because your WILL is UTTERLY against God.

See? This seems very contradictory to me...

Almost as if you're trying to say that God's will is utterly against Himself.

 

[sprinkles]

There is no contradiction.

I never said people LACK VOLITION, just that their volition is naturally evil.

Everything we do is tainted by sin. And yes, God USES our sin for his own purposes. Such as using wicked men to crucify his Son, so that sinners would be saved through him.

See? It's not that hard to understand if you just give it the tiniest bit of thought.

But you know WHY you won't do that? Because your WILL is UTTERLY against God, and so you SUPRESS what you KNOW is the truth.

If God ever saves you, you'll stop fighting against it, and you'll gladly bow to the truth.

No no no, I'm talking about all the parts where you keep saying "if you do this" and "you should do that" and "why don't you do this".

That doesn't make any sense if one is going only on evil will. You're asking for the impossible, according to what you've previously illustrated.

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Right? Right?? So even if I acknowledge what you just said as entirely true, you're still saying things that don't make any sense.

 

[Matt3737]

Man, look.....

You know very well it's not HOW I'm saying it.

There is no way to tell people they're LOST and on their way to Hell without upsetting and offending their ego.

So, it wouldn't matter how sweetly I said it to them, they're going to get upset anyway.

And if you think that means I should just pretend they're NOT lost, then I'm afraid I just have to disagree.

You could begin by stating your beliefs as your own and allow people the right to decide for themselves whether or not to accept your conclusions.

 

[SovereignGrace]

See? This seems very contradictory to me...

Almost as if you're trying to say that God's will is utterly against Himself.

That's a completely dishonest way to quote me.

What about the example I gave concerning wicked men crucifying Christ?

Does that not illustrate quite plainly how God uses SIN to accomplish his own PURPOSE of GRACE?

 

[SovereignGrace]

No no no, I'm talking about all the parts where you keep saying "if you do this" and "you should do that" and "why don't you do this".

That doesn't make any sense if one is going only on evil will. You're asking for the impossible, according to what you've previously illustrated.

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Right? Right?? So even if I acknowledge what you just said as entirely true, you're still saying things that don't make any sense.

Why do you assume I'm making no sense?

What about the possibility that you're not understanding?

I've said it numerous times, in this thread, as well as others: The MEANS that GOD USES to bring sinners to FAITH is the PREACHING of the GOSPEL to SINNERS!

That is the MEANS under which sinners COME to a knowledge of the truth.

So if people don't PREACH it, NOBODY will be SAVED.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Why does it seem CONTRADICTORY to you?

 

[Matt3737]

That's a completely dishonest way to quote me.

What about the example I gave concerning wicked men crucifying Christ?

Does that not illustrate quite plainly how God uses SIN to accomplish his own PURPOSE of GRACE?

The context is still there to see. I moved it to illustrate to you the absurdity of your own statements. If you cannot accept that, then maybe you should take some time to commit to further Bible study and/or speak with some of our Christian members on the forum to come to a better understanding of the Christian faith.

 

[Matt3737]

Why do you assume I'm making no sense?

What about the possibility that you're not understanding?

I've said it numerous times, in this thread, as well as others: The MEANS that GOD USES to bring sinners to FAITH is the PREACHING of the GOSPEL to SINNERS!

That is the MEANS under which sinners COME to a knowledge of the truth.

So if people don't PREACH it, NOBODY will be SAVED.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Why does it seem CONTRADICTORY to you?

Because you've said elsewhere that the nature of man is in complete and utter opposition to the will of God.

Now you're saying that preaching the gospel is a sinful act, but God works his will through it?

 

[SovereignGrace]

You could begin by stating your beliefs as your own and allow people the right to decide for themselves whether or not to accept your conclusions.

But it's a GIVEN that they have the right to not accept what I say. It would be RIDICULOUS to TELL them that.

Furthermore, it is NOT my OPINION, it's the REVELATION of GOD, so I CANNOT and WILL NOT pretend it's just my opinion.

It is not my responsibility to MAKE them BELIEVE it. But it is an act of KINDNESS to at least try to warn them. It's what any caring person would do.

But, as I've said many times, I am NOT obligated to argue with people. If they argue with me, I can just let them go.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The context is still there to see. I moved it to illustrate to you the absurdity of your own statements. If you cannot accept that, then maybe you should take some time to commit to further Bible study and/or speak with some of our Christian members on the forum to come to a better understanding of the Christian faith.

Because you've said elsewhere that the nature of man is in complete and utter opposition to the will of God.

Now you're saying that preaching the gospel is a sinful act, but God works his will through it?

Man, you're just creating problems that don't even exist.

As I said before, you can take it up with God when you die.

 

[Matt3737]

But it's a GIVEN that they have the right to not accept what I say. It would be RIDICULOUS to TELL them that.

Furthermore, it is NOT my OPINION, it's the REVELATION of GOD, so I CANNOT and WILL NOT pretend it's just my opinion.

It is not my responsibility to MAKE them BELIEVE it. But it is an act of KINDNESS to at least try to warn them. It's what any caring person would do.

But, as I've said many times, I am NOT obligated to argue with people. If they argue with me, I can just let them go.

You may mean very well. But not a single person as far as I could tell saw that in your communications, not even the other Christians at the forum. I am fairly certain that everyone read nothing but hatred and condemnation from a self righteous person who took glee only in speaking about damnation and nothing about the love of Christ.