Why don't women make the first move?

what is the point in encouraging a forum filled with introverted women to go against their nature? Are you trying to change them or are you attempting to persuade folks on a larger issue?

The equality of individuals rests not on their individual strengths or weaknesses but in the way they get treated by society. If you want to argue that men and women are already treated equally then do it by pointing out how the various systems treat them equally. If you want to argue that one is privileged over the other than talk directly to those privileges. (i.e. health care spending) but the nature of this argument is counter productive and just a bit insidious.

Well first of all i'll take you a lot more seriously when i become convinced that you are not targetting me the whole time in different threads with the sole purpose of trying to discredit me

You seem to have some sort of personal issue with me

You are also calling yourself '57' which is a strange coincidence because out of the infinate combination of numbers that you could have chosen as a name you have chosen the number that 'Stu' used in his thread about conspiracy theories in which he was trying to discredit me and some of the things i was saying

You're not Stu using another username are you?

Concerning the point you have raised i have explained very clearly in this thread what i am talking about and i think the thread has covered some interesting ground

So you might find this hard but try and focus on the issue at hand instead of making attacks on me for example accusing me of being 'insidious' as you have done in this case and try and appreciate that this thread has in fact created an interesting discussion
 
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I am pretty indifferent to any particular gender having to initiate, but I do have to say that initiating was always one of the most anxiety inducing actions ever, other than public speaking. To initiate is to bear it all. Your infatuations are no longer secret and there is no turning back from letting her know you're interested. All of those expectations of a reciprocated romance can come crashing down in an instance. Like that time in the fourth grade, when I was attracted to a girl in my grade named Holly. I thought she was so beautiful and my heart raced every time I was around her. I decided to call her at home and ask her out. I tried a couple of different numbers in the phone book until I called the correct one and with each number I tried I would dial the number, stop, and hang up before finally following through with it. Oh my god, I was so nervous. I thought everything went well after I talked to her. She sounded sweet and giggly on the phone, but when I approached her at school to ask her if she would go out with me, she turned and walked away from me. She was probably embarrassed and I felt so defeated.

It would always happen the same way with other crushes, I would fall hard for the girl, build up the courage to ask them out and was always rejected in the end. So, I learned to wait to see if the girl I was interested in would show some sign of being interested in me. This took a lot more time, but was more comforting for me in that it felt I was building a relationship with them first and would get to know them better this way. This seemed to work much better for me as a long term and my relationships felt more real and grounded in reality.

I've always liked it when a woman does some initiating, but not in a very dominating way, just in mutual, "I like you too" kind of way.

I think many guys would be able to relate to what you are saying

It's always refreshing when people don't play games and are just clear and honest in their intentions

The worst thing a person can do is send out mixed or confusing messages
 
my hunch is that men don't like it and don't consider female initiators as serious relationship candidates

No i think the real answer lies in the information you have posted:

Both sexes described men as taking a very active role in the date-initiation. Like so, not surprisingly, women reported taking a less direct approach to relationship initiation than did men. Women were less direct, less motivated, and less likely to initiate a relationship with a particular available partner than were men. They also reported being more concerned about the risk of an unsuccessful initiation attempt.



The reality is that initiating is HARD to do and people don't want to do it generally but the cultural expectation is for men to do it

Women are asserting themselves more in society but not in this area where they are leaving the burden of this difficult social task on men

As the clip from your info above says women are afraid of rejection; well guess what...men are too
 
This will be a controversial post...and some of it may seem like its going on a bizarre tangent...but bear with me if you will...or not...

Diversity is strength and variety is the spice of life! I couldn't agree with this more. Differences between all of us should be celebrated, while the core knowledge of our underlying Oneness remains constant.

I understand what you are saying about men and women being different. Clearly we are, but to what extent is complicated. Obviously men and women have different roles in the process of reproduction. Essentially, a woman has the physical capacity to be a mother, and a man has the physical capacity to be a father. But two women together, and two men together can also successfully raise a happy and balanced child together, doing the 'mothering' and the 'fathering.

Did you know that men technically have milk ducts and can breastfeed in some circumstances?
Some animals can change their sex to what is appropriate given the environmental conditions.
Animals and humans are surprising adaptable and fluid in what we can do with our bodies. According my anatomy and physiology professor (who disagrees with my beliefs lol) humans even have the dormant and unused capacity that would allow us to change colour, similar to a chameleon!

I understand that science says men and women have different psychological circuits, hormone concentrations and brain chemistry. To a certain extent, this is because of inherent nature.
But I believe that cultural conditioning and personal beliefs have much more to do with this than most people realise. Some people, including many in the mainstream scientific community believe that our body chemistry and make up, concentrations of hormones, neurotransmitters and organic substances are what dictate they way we perceive, think, experience, look and act. I believe it happens in the reverse, and has a constant feedback loop. What we believe, accept, think, and value shapes our eyes, our perception. This state of perception is reflected in the body, because they body is intimately connected with perception. We use our bodies to perceive, understand, respond and engage. The body responds perfectly and automatically....magically...to mirror our beliefs. The body is the soul made flesh, crouched in creaturehood...as Seth would say.

So when scientists do tests on men and womens chemistry the results will reflect these differences.
But research has also found that girls that play more 'boys games' growing up have better visio-spatial ability than girls that dont.
Boys enculturalised in more emotionaly open cultures are better at processing emotions and communicating than men that arent.
And there are always 'outliers' in tests that simply do not fit into the 'average' cultural mould.

Our bodies and the world around us are a physical manifestation of the inner consciousness. Consciousness effects form. Form effects consciousness, but the real change occurs on the level of inner consciousness.

In the 'merkabah' thread dmt..divine magical trip...dubbed the spirit molecule... has been discussed. Dmt is present in life forms and can be extracted through a process of acidification and alkalising, and then ingested or smoked aka wattle or grass crystals. But we already have dmt in our bodies, and we produce/activate higher concentrations of dmt when we meditate and go into trance...basically modify our level of consciousness. Drugs like cannabis, ecstasy, speed, cocaine, magic mushrooms are similar in that they activate certain states that are, in certain terms, natural, and can be accessed through other means of physical reality. Lsd is a different kettle of fish, in that it is not naturally present in the body, and is extremely powerful, and essentially foreign to the body. While acid can be one amazingly brilliant trip, it can also be very dangerous and destructive-unravelling cellular consciousness and ego if it is used incorrectly or abused.

Substances produced by the sickness industry such as SSRIs can temporarily and unnaturally alter the bodies chemical balance. When we feel depressed and out of balance, this is physically reflected in the bodies physical chemical balance. We feel pain and discomfort so we can recognise and address the problems we experience. All healing takes place on the inner level, of consciousness. While it is possible to medicate someone to suppress or reverse their symptoms, this does not actually heal the issue, but simply hides it, and can make it worse because the person feels even more disconnected from the inner truth and reality of their being. The body will often react against being medicated, as it recognises that its pain warning system has been violated, and its natural innate healing processes has been not only blocked, but rejected. Some doctors think that people get sick because their bodies are out of whack, but the bodies are not out whack, the body is in perfect sync with the person's conscious perception, beliefs, and experience. The body is behaving exactly as it should, and the real issue is that the person's perception, beliefs and experiences are not 'right' for that individual and out of balance...creating a dis-ease state in the body.

People are attracted to certain types of food because of their perceptions and beliefs. No food is good or bad. Junk food doesnt make people sick and fat. But their reasons for consuming it does. The person's low energy vibration will attract sustenance derived from similar low vibration matter. They eat junk food because of their beliefs about their inner state and physical body. People with healthy inner states are attracted to high vibration, high nutrient food. We are what we eat, literally. The more you love your body, the more you want to take good care of it. Sometimes people go on diets because they hate themselves, rather than because they love themselves, and this is manifested physically. Some people obsess over their food, counting and analysing, worrying and measuring...and this leads them to have a painful relationship with food which is then manifested physically in the body. Other people believe they are healthy and invincible, and so it doesnt matter what they eat, they are still healthy

Our conscious experience on Earth is layered, filtered, and enriched with many different archetypes, such as man, woman, mother, father, all the cards in the Tarot deck, and so many more culturally recognised schematic 'shapes'.
Jung, Myer Briggs, Socionics, and many others have recognised 16 basic processing archetypes. I dont think any of these sources have nailed it, some far from it lol, but I believe that there are 16 basic processing archetypes because I have seem them. Different types have different 'shape' consciousness, and this is reflected in the physical manifestation.

All these different chosen archetypes manifest in a myriad fluid ways on Earth. No two people are exactly alike, all are unique, fascinating, innately creative and glorious. The women archetype can be experienced in an infinite number of ways, even by the same person. It can even be experienced by a man! The infj archetype can be manifested in billions of ways, as it is shaped and filtered and changed by personal choice, culture, environment, desires, and intention. And it is exciting to see these variations...to see how another person chooses to manifest a shared archetype...its so fascinating and brilliant!

There is a lot of fluidity to our experience here. We dont necessarily physically incarnate here on Earth to experience fluidity, but more to live in here in defined and structured terms. Hence the relevance and importance of archetypes. We make up rules and conditions to serve our purpose. In dreams and deep states of consciousness, we can go anywhere, be anything, simply Be, I AM...there is not time, no space., just I AM. ..everything is possible. On Earth, we have made certain rules to help ground us to this game we play here. Just like when we play a ball game, we normally agree to certain rules and conditions before we play, so we can be on the same page and get what we want out of it. We make video games more exciting by creating new settings, scenarios, scenes, themes, character development...a part of the pleasure is derived because of the structured nature of the experience. We like to see how much we can do within certain parameters, how far we can bend and reach and transform and transcend illusions.

But many of the rules are not 'real', and many of the rules change all the time. There are certain Universal Laws that cannot possibly be violated, but much of everything else is fair game and limited to only what you are prepared to accept, believe, desire, and imagine.

So why not relax and have fun with the possibilities? Be open and accepting of all emotions as they come and go, experience things and let them come and go accordingly to our purpose?

On the weekend I went to see a burlesque show. There were women and men there of all ages, shapes, sizes, backgrounds, and purposes. There were people doing all kinds of acts- some that were traditional, funny, weird, disturbing, sexy, clever etc. There were men and women performing together, and performing alone. There were women dressed as men, and men dressed as women, and men and women dressed as animals, and in once case- hello kitty...lol! I really enjoy going to these events, there is something fresh and thrilling watching a bunch of people, mostly amateurs and some professional, getting up and giving something a go. There is a relaxed attitude towards body shape, gender, sex, and cultural roles. Just people doing things to entertain themselves and other people....just having an experience and exploring some of the creative potential of their personality and humanity.

There are so many ways that creativity can be manifested in life, why not appreciate and enjoy the expression?

At different times in this Earth's story, the roles of men and women have been reversed, and we have had all kinds of different cultural approaches to community and family and sex.

Last year I engaged in the process of the alchemical marriage. I found the God and the Goddess...The Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine, and integrated them Lovingly within. Basically, I experienced that these two forces were intimately and beautifully symbiotically One. The Divine Masculine and The Divine Feminine or whatever anyone else wants to call them, is present in each and everyone of us, and is reflected in all of nature and earthly creation. Everywhere in nature, the spirit of these energies can be seen...the process and drive of creativity....seeding, pregnancy, birth, and life..forces coming together and moving apart....dancing....the forces of aggression and passivity, each within the other, each contributing to the greater Gestalt Whole.

I did Mother and Father healing, and released past issues I had with my parents, and with my concept of these archetypes. The Mother and The Father archetypes are representative of the God and Goddess. As we heal our issues with our Mother and Father, we heal our attitude towards the Divine Source of creation that allows us to manifest here physically on Earth.

After that process, I felt...whole...and I trusted Life, the Divinity within, the integrity of my being, and the Earth. It became much easier to manifest my desires rather than my fears, because my intentions had a new force and clarity.

I just wanted to clarify here...i dont believe that all people have to experience motherhood or fatherhood to be happy, or live a full and rich life. Personally, I think that it might be easier if less people bred. When I was younger, I used to think many people were 'breeders', and I most assuredly was not. I had more exciting and wonderful things to do, and I wanted to remain independent and free, and I never thought I would be a good mum. Obviously that changed when I became a mother, and I experienced how truly rich and rewarding it was. But there are many ways to express our creativity and being on this planet, and parenthood many not be one of them for many people. It doesn't make any woman or man less or any more than others.

I understand that different people on this planet have different agendas and intentions that they try to manifest.
I do understand that there are groups of people that are manifesting the 'fuck wit' archetype and trying to play nasty power games and control populations. I understand that they have a nasty vision for the world, and that they use manipulation to achieve their goals.
I love them anyway, and it doesn't matter what they do. Regardless of what perception prison they are in, or what fear based vibration are caught up in, they are our brothers and sisters, they are us, and they carry the Light of Source within.
People have free will, if they choose to accept it. If we want to change the direction of the world, we have to change our own direction. Create more of what you want, think and focus on the things that you want. Why focus on a vision that we would rather not manifest? Focus instead on the vision of what we want to manifest. People are enculturalised by 'those' fear based web because they are caught up in an inner state of fear. Pointing out more demons in their closet isn't going to help people that are frightened. Shining a torch in their closet to show them there's nothing to be frightened of will help them. Empowering people by helping them recognise their inherent self worth, treating them with kindness, empathy, compassion, as the powerful and beautiful child of God that they are...these things help. We need more Love, Love is the only answer.


What sort of world do you want to live in? What is your vision of utopia? What kind of community do you think would work well? What kind of family structure do you think would be good? How do you think things like family responsibilities could be distributed?

Sorry for these really longs posts, I'll stop here.

I think that everything is energy....information that we are decoding into our 'physical' reality

Fast food is of a certain informational energy that is not going to resonate harmoniously with our body

You could take someone from the amazon rainforest who knows nothing about the content of fast food and feed them a diet of it and it will make them sick

Concerning the people who are palying all the matrix games with our society they are psychopaths; they have no empathy

Now sure you can think about them in spiritual terms as creations of the source imagination of which we are all subjective expressions and you could say that they are created in this 'physical' reality to teach us something (probably that we should take responsibility)

But on the mundane plane of day to day existence in this physical play out world they are still beings with no empathy who want to wreak terrible havoc on other peoples lives

Now you can love those people if you want as expressions of the divine consciousness but at the same time I recommend you take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones from them

Concerning the gender bending you are talking about i want to draw it to your attention that certain things in our enviornment are being altered by the psychopaths who are forming the ruling class

They are putting gender bending chemicals in babies milk bottles so that boys are being feminised (PCB's). These chemicals are also being put into the water supply via plastics and the female contraceptive pill

They are pushing cancer causing GMO foods on the population

They are putting industrial flouride in the drinking water to calcify the pineal gland that you mentioned (to stop us from connecting with other realms of consciousness)

They are spraying aluminium particulates into our atmosphere so the alzeimers rates are going up ('geoengineering')

They are radiating our environment (many people believe that fukishima was an accident because thats what they have been told by the corporate media)

They are bathing us in RF frequency radiation through: wifi, smart meters and mobile telephone masts

I could go on and on and on and about the things they are doing but one of the things they are doing is trying to feminise men because they know that this ruins our potency as a species (male fertility rates are dropping) and they know that the people with the physical ability and the warrior mentality to oppose them are men
 
Women seem to take their time in deciding whether to like a member of the opposite sex for romantic purposes. This is usually a silent process that goes on mainly in the mind. Once they have checked off the yes box, a few things can happen.

1. She will avoid him. Avoiding means not doing stupid things in front of him. She becomes very self conscious and that makes her clumsy. If he is around, she will undoubtedly walk into a wall or sign.
2. She will be mean and sarcastic with him during the day while masterbating to his image at night. The meanness comes from her wanting to protect herself emotionally. She likes him so that means that he now has the ability to hurt her.
3. She will act helpless. She will ask him for assistance with the simplest tasks. Can you lift that box for me? It's sooo heavy. Yes, that's right. Make him feel big, strong and needed. Show him that you need to be taken care of. I personally can't hide my disgust when I see this scenario play out in front of me.
And then there is number 4.
4. The woman has decided that you are worth the risk of a possible rejection and goes out of her way to get to know you. She laughs at your jokes, tells you when your jokes are a fail, asks you to hang out or go for coffee, engages you in intelligent conversation. This is a woman making her move. She knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. She has a mind of her own and she sure as hell can lift that box with her own two strong hands. She doesn't need to pretend to be anything other than who she is.

Yes. I suppose I can see why a #4 woman wouldn't be taken as seriously by a man.

I think number 4 is making an effort to send out the right kind of signals

All the other ones are being....well....confused in their own mind (and therefore sending out confusing signals)
 
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Women seem to take their time in deciding whether to like a member of the opposite sex for romantic purposes. This is usually a silent process that goes on mainly in the mind. Once they have checked off the yes box, a few things can happen.

1. She will avoid him. Avoiding means not doing stupid things in front of him. She becomes very self conscious and that makes her clumsy. If he is around, she will undoubtedly walk into a wall or sign.
2. She will be mean and sarcastic with him during the day while masterbating to his image at night. The meanness comes from her wanting to protect herself emotionally. She likes him so that means that he now has the ability to hurt her.
3. She will act helpless. She will ask him for assistance with the simplest tasks. Can you lift that box for me? It's sooo heavy. Yes, that's right. Make him feel big, strong and needed. Show him that you need to be taken care of. I personally can't hide my disgust when I see this scenario play out in front of me.
And then there is number 4.
4. The woman has decided that you are worth the risk of a possible rejection and goes out of her way to get to know you. She laughs at your jokes, tells you when your jokes are a fail, asks you to hang out or go for coffee, engages you in intelligent conversation. This is a woman making her move. She knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. She has a mind of her own and she sure as hell can lift that box with her own two strong hands. She doesn't need to pretend to be anything other than who she is.

Yes. I suppose I can see why a #4 woman wouldn't be taken as seriously by a man.

Assuming I had experiences with those 4 approaches from 4 different women (unlikely, but for the sake of the argument), I would respect and be attracted to the fourth woman more than the rest, by far. I would be flattered by the 1st (assuming I know what she's actually doing) and put off by the 2nd. I'm not sure how I'd react to the 3rd. I'd probably feel good about myself and might be more relaxed talking to her but I wouldn't know that she likes me or whether I like her (if I spend the whole time fetching and carrying and babysitting her, I'm not talking to her or learning anything about her). If the purpose of those 4 approaches is to get the guy to like her, 4 would work on me, 2 does the opposite and 1 and 3 just depend on the girl (and how I'm feeling).
 
I'm a #4 and I found a guy who takes me seriously (:

I sound like a broken record, but everyone has different preferences and tastes. That's all there pretty much is to this topic, imo.
 
I'm a #4 and I'm glad I found a guy who takes me seriously (:

I sound like a broken record, but everyone has different preferences and tastes. That's all there pretty much is to this topic, imo.

True, everyone has their tastes but I think the issue here is that social expectations and restrictions are preventing people from being themselves. Some women want to chase and some men want to be chased (actually I think everyone wants a little bit of both, at least sometimes) but we feel like we shouldn't and the other person (and everyone who sees/hears of it) would judge us if we did.
 
Women seem to take their time in deciding whether to like a member of the opposite sex for romantic purposes. This is usually a silent process that goes on mainly in the mind. Once they have checked off the yes box, a few things can happen.

1. She will avoid him. Avoiding means not doing stupid things in front of him. She becomes very self conscious and that makes her clumsy. If he is around, she will undoubtedly walk into a wall or sign.
2. She will be mean and sarcastic with him during the day while masterbating to his image at night. The meanness comes from her wanting to protect herself emotionally. She likes him so that means that he now has the ability to hurt her.
3. She will act helpless. She will ask him for assistance with the simplest tasks. Can you lift that box for me? It's sooo heavy. Yes, that's right. Make him feel big, strong and needed. Show him that you need to be taken care of. I personally can't hide my disgust when I see this scenario play out in front of me.
And then there is number 4.
4. The woman has decided that you are worth the risk of a possible rejection and goes out of her way to get to know you. She laughs at your jokes, tells you when your jokes are a fail, asks you to hang out or go for coffee, engages you in intelligent conversation. This is a woman making her move. She knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. She has a mind of her own and she sure as hell can lift that box with her own two strong hands. She doesn't need to pretend to be anything other than who she is.

Yes. I suppose I can see why a #4 woman wouldn't be taken as seriously by a man.

Some things are pretty heavy though.. Taking physical traits into account, if the girl is a lot smaller and not physically as strong as her partner, I don't see the issue in letting the more physically stronger one helping out. In fact, it makes sense.
 
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True, everyone has their tastes but I think the issue here is that social expectations and restrictions are preventing people from being themselves. Some women want to chase and some men want to be chased (actually I think everyone wants a little bit of both, at least sometimes) but we feel like we shouldn't and the other person (and everyone who sees/hears of it) would judge us if we did.

Yes, but even if the other person ends up rejecting you and judging you for it, then they aren't worth the time and effort anyways. :)

Adding some more to this: People should just do whatever the hell they want. If you're interested in that guy and you don't think he'll initiate things with you, go ahead and talk to him! If you're interested in that girl and you don't think she'll initiate things with you, go ahead and talk to her!

It doesn't all have to be so forward and fast-moving. It was mentioned before but things could start off as more platonic then slowly evolve into something more romantic, but life is full of possibilities. You live and you learn, you learn and you live. If you want something - go for it. At least then you can say you tried (which is better than not trying at all).
 
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Some things are pretty heavy though.. Taking physical traits into account, if the girl is a lot smaller and not physically as strong as her partner, I don't see the issue in letting the more physically stronger one helping out. In fact, it makes a lot of sense.

guys are often taller and sometimes can reach things women can't, they can undo lids that are jammed tight!...it's part of the whole 'complementing each other' thing

Equally there are ways in which women can also be a positive effect on the man

The question is: can we be comfortable with someone else making up for our shortfalls sometimes and thereby becoming stronger as a team?

feminism would say 'no'
 
guys are often taller and sometimes can reach things women can't, they can undo lids that are jammed tight!...it's part of the whole 'complementing each other' thing

Equally there are ways in which women can also be a positive effect on the man

The question is: can we be comfortable with someone else making up for our shortfalls sometimes and thereby becoming stronger as a team?

feminism would say 'no'

I agree with you on this. Of course you'll find some taller ladies and not so tall guys out there.. Humans cannot be so easily generalized.

I also said this before but yes, men and women work a lot better when we work as a team. Women shouldn't put down men and neither should men put down women. We're all different in our own lovely ways
 
Some things are pretty heavy though.. Taking physical traits into account, if the girl is a lot smaller and not physically as strong as her partner, I don't see the issue in letting the more physically stronger one helping out. In fact, it makes a lot of sense.


Yes, but I think you missed my point. I am referring to women that use this as a flirting technique. They try to make themselves appear weak and helpless. She is the damsel in distress and she needs a big, strong man to come along to show off his brute strength. She pouts her lips and talks like a baby while twirling her hair. I just threw up. And there are guys out that that eat this up. They love being that guy.

If she really needs help then that's one thing but you can usually tell when that is not what's going on.
 
Yes, but I think you missed my point. I am referring to women that use this as a flirting technique. They try to make themselves appear weak and helpless. She is the damsel in distress and she needs a big, strong man to come along to show off his brute strength. She pouts her lips and talks like a baby while twirling her hair. I just threw up. And there are guys out that that eat this up. They love being that guy.

If she really needs help then that's one thing but you can usually tell when that is not what's going on.

Ah yes, if this is the case, then yes it's quite disappointing to see someone completely change who they are in order to attract someone. The guys that eat that up are falling for a facade. That sort of attraction is superficial, and when things get serious, they'll most likely be heading downhill.

Everyone wants to be on their absolute best in the beginning and that's just a natural part of being human, but people should be discouraged from acting completely out of character in order to attract someone. That's why: Be yourself y'all! Yeesh :)
 
Assuming I had experiences with those 4 approaches from 4 different women (unlikely, but for the sake of the argument), I would respect and be attracted to the fourth woman more than the rest, by far. I would be flattered by the 1st (assuming I know what she's actually doing) and put off by the 2nd. I'm not sure how I'd react to the 3rd. I'd probably feel good about myself and might be more relaxed talking to her but I wouldn't know that she likes me or whether I like her (if I spend the whole time fetching and carrying and babysitting her, I'm not talking to her or learning anything about her). If the purpose of those 4 approaches is to get the guy to like her, 4 would work on me, 2 does the opposite and 1 and 3 just depend on the girl (and how I'm feeling).


You just said it. 1-3 leaves a lot of room for incorrect assumptions. Mixed signals. Men are not mind readers and number 4 knows this.

[MENTION=9859]Mishyou[/MENTION] welcome to the number 4 club. We need more of us. Recruit!
 
Yes, but even if the other person ends up rejecting you and judging you for it, then they aren't worth the time and effort anyways. :)

Adding some more to this: People should just do whatever the hell they want. If you're interested in that guy and you don't think he'll initiate things with you, go ahead and talk to him! If you're interested in that girl and you don't think she'll initiate things with you, go ahead and talk to her!

It doesn't all have to be so forward and fast-moving. It was mentioned before but things could start off as more platonic then slowly evolve into something more romantic, but life is full of possibilities. You live and you learn, you learn and you live. If you want something - go for it. At least then you can say you tried (which is better than not trying at all).

I think I mentioned this early on but alot of people seem to think that being friends first is like a form of deception used by cowards. I don't want to go off topic but I saw a few friendzone threads on this forum and alot of people there thought it was the mans responsibility to 'declare his intentions' and if he didn't well... the word misogynist was used alot.
If a male friend of yours started to express a not-so-platonic interest in you, would you feel betrayed?
 
You just said it. 1-3 leaves a lot of room for incorrect assumptions. Mixed signals. Men are not mind readers and number 4 knows this.

[MENTION=9859]Mishyou[/MENTION] welcome to the number 4 club. We need more of us. Recruit!
Well at least there are a few who realize men cant begin to read minds.
Very very few though.
"What are you upset about?"
"You should know."
"Ok I apologize but I really dont."
"Oh you know all right your just playing dumb."
 
[MENTION=9859]Mishyou[/MENTION] welcome to the number 4 club. We need more of us. Recruit!

Woot woot. This will be our promotional banner, hehe :)

Mean-Girls-GIF-Kevin-G-Dont-Let-The-Haters-Stop-You-From-Doing-Your-Thang1.gif


I think I mentioned this early on but alot of people seem to think that being friends first is like a form of deception used by cowards. I don't want to go off topic but I saw a few friendzone threads on this forum and alot of people there thought it was the mans responsibility to 'declare his intentions' and if he didn't well... the word misogynist was used alot.
If a male friend of yours started to express a not-so-platonic interest in you, would you feel betrayed?

A form of deception used by cowards? That's a bit extreme.. Personally, I wouldn't feel betrayed. Honestly, I feel like that's the best way to get to know someone, but it does depends on the situation. I don't see the misogyny in that either. People can't control their feelings and who they fall for, and to shame them for that is pretty ridiculous.

I guess you could call me "traditional," but I think it's best to take things slow.. Or at whatever pace feels right. A lot of people nowadays tend to rush things.
 
A form of deception used by cowards? That's a bit extreme.. Personally, I wouldn't feel betrayed. Honestly, I feel like that's the best way to get to know someone, but it does depends on the situation. I don't see the misogyny in that either. People can't control their feelings and who they fall for, and to shame them for that is pretty ridiculous.

I guess you could call me "traditional," but I think it's best to take things slow.. Or at whatever pace feels right. A lot of people nowadays tend to rush things.

I'd agree with you. I guess I'm just worried that the other person might think I was being dishonest. Or that by taking it slow and not making the first 'move' then I'd be closing the door on any chance of something 'more' with that person.
It's a tricky situation. Maybe people rush things because everyone else is too and they are worried that they'll miss their shot.

While I might be busy taking it slow there are plenty of guys who are alot more direct.
 
My argument is that modern feminism is not the answer to modern relationships. if it was; then divorce rates would be much lower. Relationships between the sexes would not be so strained and difficult. I do dismiss modern feminism because it is an over hyped push for females to be "equal" when in reality the sexes will never be equal because the sexes were not meant to be equal but complimentary. As a result of modern feminism; females confuse the need for their own independence with the need to compete with the male; which is counterproductive. Competing with the male counterpart is not "female empowerment" but a dire strategy used by society to break families apart and keep the sexes in competition mode so they never learn to work together harmoniously.

Just because the man decided to do the dishes or stay at home does not mean it is "equal". The power dynamics within the relationship will always exist and the man will always have the evolutionary drive to be the head of the household and wear the pants in the relationship. But of course modern feminists are not cool with that; further sending a confusing message with the opposite sex that the ability to do as the males do is considered female and male equality. it's bullshit and misleading to younger generations.


You don't need to be a feminist to see that the relations within the sexes is fucked up.

I don't find it to be misleading at all nor do I find it to be fucked up. Like I said, what works for one couple may not work for another. It is THEIR personal choice as a couple. How can you say that the woman and the man have to learn to work harmoniously together and then say that the man will always want to be the head of the household? This is another contradicting argument.

You can be a feminist and have the choice to adhere to any role, but it does not necessarily mean that you HAVE to conform to any role. Regardless, Feminism =/= Gender roles. Feminism is mainly about equal opportunity and what people WANT to do with that opportunity is UP TO THEM. It's not saying that a woman HAS to do as the males do... it's just fighting for females to be equal opportunity partners... whether their own personal relationships with their man has a 'traditional' gender role or not. Women have fought SO incredibly long to have privileges in society like voting rights, reproductive rights, equal pay, to be in the military, to be in law, to be in the corporate office, to own land, etc. In fact, we got some of these rights after men of color because we were represented as lesser since we are women.

It is very disappointing to me to see another person in this thread who doesn't understand what feminism means and just goes with the prejudices induced by the media. Especially another woman. Know your rights.
 
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