Enneagram Type 8

[VH]

@VH does conflict and asserting your dominance over people energize you?

Not in a good way... but yeah.

 

[arbygil]

VH, it might be uncomfortable, but accepting these parts in yourself and knowing who you are will help you be in control that much more. Instead of situations becoming a surprise, you can line yourself up by learning to deal with the issues first.

You don't have to become darkness to turn it into light; you just have to understand it and know when it's coming in order to overcome it with truth.

 

[Kmal]

Not in a good way... but yeah.

[MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] i think i know what you mean-- when you're in control, and everyone submits to you, things run smoothly? that's how it is for me sort of. i'm in charge of (me and) my environment, and if you're in my environment, we have to get things straight; and i'm in charge of getting things straight.

 

[VH]

VH, it might be uncomfortable, but accepting these parts in yourself and knowing who you are will help you be in control that much more. Instead of situations becoming a surprise, you can line yourself up by learning to deal with the issues first.

You don't have to become darkness to turn it into light; you just have to understand it and know when it's coming in order to overcome it with truth.

Words of wisdom, as always. Thank you.

@VH i think i know what you mean-- when you're in control, and everyone submits to you, things run smoothly? that's how it is for me sort of. i'm in charge of (me and) my environment, and if you're in my environment, we have to get things straight; and i'm in charge of getting things straight.

In this situation, I am energized by people putting their trust in me. It's a good energizing. I do have that urge to make things right, and I get a great deal of positive energy from making things right, especially when everyone goes along with it. Problem is, I don't deal with opposition well anymore. I've seen 9's do this amazing redirection technique. It's as beautiful as it is natural, and dear goodness do I wish I still had it. I feel like I always start there, but the instant I start encountering obstacles, I begin to drop into opposition mode.

Here's the anatomy of how this works for me:

Mild conflict arises, but everyone is still harmonious... not yet emotional.
I have amazing radar for the potential for these situations, and always have.
I start to head it off at the pass by making jokes, putting a warm vibe into the air, and distracting the people who seem on the verge of getting too emotional.
If people do start to get emotional, I'm really good at calming them down to keep the peace by projecting my vibe, distracting, and redirecting into humor.
The person I used to be was a genius at this actually, and I would almost never break bad, no matter what was going on or how chaotic, contentious, or emotional everyone got.
But nowadays, if the opposition to harmony gets too great, or someone directly challenges me, it's on - and not in a good way. All of a sudden, a switch in me flips, and I shift into this sort of mini-tyrant, get very angry, and extremely unyielding.
I have almost no ability to back down anymore, even though when I was younger someone in my care had to be physically threatened before this trigger would kick in. I wouldn't even stand up for myself. Peace was more important, and just plain made more sense. If I could cause both myself and someone else from getting hurt by simply backing down, I wouldn't hesitate.
I miss this part of me, and feel that the loss of it has been a very bad thing, but I got tired of being taken advantage of... and losing everything that I loved because I wouldn't fight for it (because I believed in the inherent goodness of the world and that justice prevails for good people). But in the process, I've lost who I am, and I'm starting to think that's worse (because I've finally accepted the injustice of the world, and it has made life a miserable place to be).


However, the situation you described earlier applied to who I am now (or at least have been the past few years). I was thinking of how conflict instantly causes me to step up as a reaction, this reflex I've developed and don't at all like. I get energized, but it's a fierce, adversarial, contentious energy. It is this energy boost that allows me to overcome all opposition... or at least make the opposition wish it didn't try. I am fairly certain that this energy is coming from my reserves of all of that built up anger suddenly building up into a power up of raw anger. Honestly, while it does make me super clear and very capable, it also makes me stupid. I am moving from the bad side of myself in those moments, and I don't like it.

The fact that this didn't used to be my natural state is one of the reasons I've been considering 9, but it's kinda moot since I've become this person who is clearly an 8. I think I've been an 8 in training my whole life, and my recent events (past 5 years) have pushed me over the edge.

 

[Kmal]

8 in training sounds like you're becoming a more balanced person and developing your wing.

 

[VH]

8 in training sounds like you're becoming a more balanced person and developing your wing.

You think I'm a 9w8?

 

[Majesty]

Mehh, eight is too much negativity and work for me. I'd rather be in happycandy type seven land.

[MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] You don't look like a 9, at all.

 

[Kmal]

@VH

You think I'm a 9w8?

I do. You say your whole life you've seemed a 9, and now you've stopped taking shit from people and learned to put yourself ahead of others (a hard thing to do for a 9). Do you feel like when you're at your best, everyone else is as well?

Not backing down is a good thing. Sometimes, you need to put people in their place to keep the peace. That is textbook 9w8. Putting people "in their place" to exhibit dominance and gain control is 8 behavior. Motivation is what separates them of course.

Unhealthy anger has nothing to do with enneagram, as you know.

 

[VH]

@VH
I do. You say your whole life you've seemed a 9, and now you've stopped taking shit from people and learned to put yourself ahead of others (a hard thing to do for a 9).

When I was younger, I could put myself ahead of others only if I was unaware of people being put out by it. Otherwise, I had a hard time with it. I still have trouble not doing so. It's like I'm at a point where these instincts are in contention, and the moments where the selfish side wins bother me. However, when I let others have precedence it's not a submissive thing... it's deliberate giving.

Do you feel like when you're at your best, everyone else is as well?

Quite! I can't be at my best unless everyone else is, though the two are inter-related and build on each other.

Not backing down is a good thing. Sometimes, you need to put people in their place to keep the peace. That is textbook 9w8. Putting people "in their place" to exhibit dominance and gain control is 8 behavior. Motivation is what separates them of course.

I don't do this to gain control per se. It's not to be "in charge" of anything but me. I really only put my foot down on attempts to control me, not to control others any more than to get them to stop pushing me, but I've become extremely over sensitive to being pushed - and when I push back, sometimes I push back extremely hard, but for the most part it's this cold hard stone wall effect inside me. I hate to say this, but I think I'm just tired of "losing".

It definitely used to be to keep the peace. Now it's to maintain something else. I'm not sure exactly... my ego? My place in this world? Justice? My dominance? It's like it's become about creating harmony for me, and everyone else can fall in or fuck off.

Unhealthy anger has nothing to do enneagram, however.

Like I said, I'm so full of suppressed anger, rage, and frustration it's making me stupid. I forget the simple things.

Edit: Wow, that's a paradigm shift... Maybe I should focus on what I need to be happy. Being 8-like isn't making me happy.

 

[VH]

@VH You don't look like a 9, at all.

What do 9's look like?

 

[Kmal]

@VH

Quite! I can't be at my best unless everyone else is, though the two are inter-related and build on each other.

When I'm at my best (others have no influence on this at all) everyone else seems to be as well-- more tolerable, more harmonious, more accepting, everything just goes fucking insanely well. I havent found a way to keep myself at 100% best at all times, though I have spurts of it often! This is typical of 9s from what I've read. I always blame myself (so it feels like I'm in control) when people around me break harmony and do stupid shit like that. Sometimes, fixing it requires strength, power, and force.

I don't do this to gain control per se. It's not to be "in charge" of anything but me. I really only put my foot down on attempts to control me, not to control others any more than to get them to stop pushing me, but I've become extremely over sensitive to being pushed. I hate to say this, but I think I'm just tired of "losing".

Yeah, that doesn't sound like type 8 at all. I'm the same way you describe-- someone tries to control me, or just plain dominate me, I call that breaking harmony and it needs to be fixed asap. Which brings about this--

It definitely used to be to keep the peace. Now it's to maintain something else. I'm not sure exactly... my ego? My place in this world? Justice? My dominance? It's like it's become about creating harmony for me, and everyone else can fall in or fuck off.

Yup, when I'm in harmony, or at my best, so is everyone else (refer to first paragraph).

 

[VH]

@VH When I'm at my best (others have no influence on this at all) everyone else seems to be as well-- more tolerable, more harmonious, more accepting, everything just goes fucking insanely well.

Oh, yeah, I see what you mean. Definintely. When I'm at my best, my perspective shifts. I see the good in people and the world, and it changes the atmosphere. The opposite is also true. When I'm in a bad state, I see the bad in the world and I affect the atmosphere negatively. People have commented on both of these with me. When I'm in a good state, people pick it up and glow. When I'm in a bad state, I have caused panic attacks without doing anything.

I havent found a way to keep myself at 100% best at all times, though I have spurts of it often! This is typical of 9s from what I've read. I always blame myself (so it feels like I'm in control) when people around me break harmony and do stupid shit like that. Sometimes, fixing it requires strength, power, and force.

I've stopped blaming myself, primarily because I've seen that I have no control over it when it really matters. Maybe this was a few isolated incidents and I shouldn't let it shake my resolve.

Huh... you know... maybe I have become like this because I've given up the belief that I can affect positive change because I now see the world as unjust and beyond my control unless I force it.



Heh, this feels like a breakthrough in a therapy session. Thanks.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like type 8 at all. I'm the same way you describe-- someone tries to control me, or just plain dominate me, I call that breaking harmony and it needs to be fixed asap. Which brings about this--Yup, when I'm in harmony, or at my best, so is everyone else (refer to first paragraph).

Huh, well if I am a 9w8 that has gone this far to the dark side of 8, let it be a lesson to you. It only happens out of necessity, and it sucks when it does... but I think you just brought the answer I've been asking God for a while now... "Why did I have to go through all of this and become like this?" Maybe it was to strengthen me when dealing with people, and prepare me for the leadership role he keeps threatening to put me in. Heh, thanks. You gave me hope that I will be able to go back to healthy, and that all of this will just have been in order to give me a new and potent bag of tools to be better than I ever was.

 

[VH]

9 Sexual/Social

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and "zoning out" tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships.

The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences.

There is still some internal struggle, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct's pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.

My chirpractor (the Enneagram expert) thought I was a 9 for years, and was shocked to find out I had such an 8ness to me. Add in the factor of my unhealthy anger, and I think we have a winner.

Intimate Nine
Living Through
With the intimate Nine subtype, the general tendency of style Nine to merge with the plans and agendae of others becomes focused on a partner. The intimate Nine will tend to almost "live through" the romantic partner or close friend or parent/child. Within style Nine the danger is not getting what they want because they prefer to do what others want in order to get along. When this energy is focused on the partner, the relationship becomes all important and the Nine can lose her own volition and direction.
When not in a relationship, much of their energy may be devoted to finding one. Lacking inner direction, they may seek someone to give them purpose and focus. Because Nines have a natural modesty that they can push too far into "I don't count," they may rely too heavily on the partner, either glorifying the partner and expanding on their virtues and talents or they may be angry that the partner is not enabling them to have a life.
Nines will often stay too long in an unhealthy relationship because they allow the partner to create and enforce the unspoken rules of the relationship. The intimate Nine assumes those rules are necessary for the partner and because they are not aware of their own needs, they go along to get along-sometimes for an amazing number of years. I once heard a Nine at an Enneagram conference say she had wanted a divorce for 41 years!
Some Nines can be prone to jealousy. They so identify with the relationship with their partner that any other relationship the partner has seems like a violation. When the Nine loses himself in the relationship it is threatening to have any other dynamic involved.
Because Nines are easily satisfied, they can settle for too little in a relationship and then be disappointed. When this happens they can become fickle, looking for fulfillment -looking for someone else to bring them to life. The fickleness is a form of passive aggression. Instead of insisting on what they need from their partner, they just drift into a different person's life.

Would an 8 pine over a mate for four years? Would an 8 hold loyalty to someone who left them cold for so long? I'm guessing no.

Nines with a One wing typically withdraw under stress more than those with an Eight wing. They sometimes find it difficult to ground themselves. They tend to lose focus and can get lost in worlds of their imagination. Nines with an Eight wing are overall more grounded and assertive. They tend also to be more sociable than those with a One wing. Nines with a One wing are more theoretical; those with an Eight wing more practical.

Lastly, would an 8 be so indecisive about their type? No. They'd either see themselves in the 8 or they'd not bother with this crap.

And yes... it's making me feel a lot better to think I'm not an 8.

 

[VH]

The more I think about this, the more I can see that the various 8 description traits could apply to me, and therefore I've been inadvertantly bending them to fit.

Here's an example. "8's are prone to starting a fight to clear the air." I remembered the times I've forced myself to step up and directly address an issue that was causing a lack of harmony, and have developed the ability to do this much easier over the years because when done correctly, it makes for more harmony and gets the tension out of the air. I've even developed the ability to go head on with people who need to be approached that way, and have become a master of refusing to back down when pushed (9 digging its heels in).

However, my motivation and approach is not at all what the description is implying. 8's will start fights over unrelated things to get a fight going so that people will escalate into throwing out "how they really feel". I would never do that. If something is bothering someone, I will rather insistently ask "Are you alright? Is something wrong?" I would always be directly addressing the issue, and would have the intention of making peace and helping the person. If it turns into a fight, then fine, I am willing to have it out... but even then I don't enjoy it and I'm fighting for the greater good result. (Problem recently is that when I get pushed too far I get so angry that I lose sight of my goals going in).

Also, my anger is always reactive. 8's are assertive people, and assertive with their anger. They'll get up in your face for no other reason than they are angry. I never get in anyone's face unless forced to make a stand for someone or myself. For example, someone pisses me off, my gut reaction is to leave so I don't blow up on them. I only take assertive stances with people when pushed too far, or they've gone too far with someone I care about, and it still causes me an adrenalin rush (not the good kind). I won't unleash my anger on a person unless it's an in the moment reaction. I'm not sure if I could.

Conflict causes this tight clenching feeling at the core of me. I've became strong enough to act in the face of it long ago, but it used to literally freeze me when I was younger. When I have to get into an emotional fight, it starts to squeeze me. This is what causes me to avoid fights. It's a gut reflex. If I am in a position where I can't avoid the fight, then I force myself to overcome this reflex by using my anger against it. Here's the heart of the problem. I used to be able to do this because standing up was what had to be done, but now if someone pushes me this far it pisses me off and the anger I use to overcome the freeze/avoid reaction in me turns all of my anger, not just enough to overcome my reflex to avoid conflict, and now I'm in werewolf mode. Once I calm down from this, I hate myself for it - UNLESS - it actually brought about harmony, peace, and good... and then I'm suddenly proud of myself for taking the stand.

There are a bunch of other 8 descriptions that could apply to me, but the key I'm figuring out here is that they're descriptions, not motivations. This unhealthy phase has made them stronger, but the core of me wants peace, harmony, and goodness. I think you're right @Kmal , this is evidence of a wing and not the other way around.

In a lot of ways, I think the reason I've had the drive to become a 'bad ass' is because I learned a long time ago that a little intimidation keeps the peace. If people are afraid to confront you, then you won't be confronted. But, in doing so I put myself on the 8 wing path, and I've created a monster.

And this about sums it up...

I love this quote:

We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.

 

[VH]

You're an 8 - but you lean heavily on your 9 wing.

You might be right. I went to an Anime convetion yesterday, and I found myself in this strange gray area of taking initiative when needed and trying to help everything get along and go more smoothly. I'm starting to see that I have a lot of both 8 and 9. Whichever one I am, I lean strongly on the wing of the other.

However, as you'd expect at a gathering based on the imagination, there were also a LOT of clear 9s. I could see traits in them that I don't think I have, especially that 'zone out as a reaction to stress' thing. I got to see one of my friends who I am pretty sure is a 9w8 in a dynamic environment (convention staff) for the first time, and while we had a lot in common and handled things very similarly, it was difficult for her to be in charge. Meanwhile, it was difficult for me to not take charge when it was clear that someone needed to.

The thing I think I need to figure out is whether or not I would have behaved and reacted the way she did when I was her age (she's 25) in that position. Honestly, I'd have to say yes except for the zoning out effect, but I do remember getting overwhelmed easily if too many demands/expectations were being placed on me, and I would freeze with indecision. It wasn't a zone out so much as a lock up, and I would defer to anyone I thought could offer good advice. The reason I was so confident in this situation this weekend was because I have helped run many conventions, and know exactly what needs to be done. In a lot of ways, I think she was more assertive and confident than I would have been at her age and with her level of experience, but I saw a lot of myself in her behaviors, actions, and mannerisms.

I could really go either way on this, and am therefore seeking outside clarity. My 8 side wants truth. My 9 side can't see myself well at all and wants someone else to explain it for me.

I can tell this because you (and I mean this kindly) you can be *pushy* and I don't see 9s as being very pushy.

Could this be a difference between 9w1 and 9w8? It seems like the 9w1's are more likely to exemplify the classic 9 passive vibe than the 9w8's.

I look at it like this: 9 is "I shouldn't be angry". 1 is "I am angry with myself". 8 is "I am angry with the world". Therefore, 9w1 seems to be "I shouldn't be angry, so if I am it was my fault - and I will assert inwardly to correct" and 9w8 is "I shouldn't be angry, so if I am it was someone else's fault - and I will assert outwardly to correct".

If this is the core difference between the types, it would cause 9w1's to be very afraid of making a mistake, and therefore leaves them prone to inaction for fear of taking the wrong action. Meanwhile, this causes 9w8's to be very reactive, and leave them prone to indecision and regret over having taken the wrong action.

You're lovely, but still pushy when you want something.

True, but I only push when I think it won't cause a lack of harmony. I tend to be (at least in person) very sensitive to when I've pushed someone too far and feel bad about it instantly. Also, by my estimation, it's not really a push so much as polite assertion, and I expect others to do the same. No one can take initiative for you, and therefore mutual respect of each others' initiative makes the world a better place because everyone gets what they need without disrupting harmony. It's only when people go so far that harmony is no longer an option that I lash out.

I guess the thing I'm trying to figure out is whether or not I was always this comfortable taking charge and asserting myself. I genuinely don't believe I was. I remember having a lot of hesitation and inhibition when I was younger. I still feel it. I am just able to ignore it better, because over the years I've learned that my hesitation and inhibition were often more of a hindrance than a help. I think I was a 9 when I was a kid. I lived in my imagination, and had a hard time understanding why people wanted to be mean to each other. I used to be so good at talking my way out of conlficts because I hated conflict. I had a really hard time becoming angry, and couldn't understand people who did. It was alien to me.

Life toughened me up, and I developed an instinct for both assertion and harmony. I still crave peace, harmony, kindness, and the like, but I will no longer "take it" from people or situations. I used to only 'fight' to make things right when it was really clear that no one else would. However, I've gotten to the point that I have to fight my reflex to "not take anything from anyone". This makes me think I was a 9 and have grown a strong 8 wing.

But, I could be wrong. Maybe I was always an 8 who leaned very stongly on my 9 wing and am finally getting to the point where I'm not leaning on it much anymore.

(Anyway, I hope this doesn't come off as contentious or anything. I'm not awake enough to be anything but serene. I'm just curious because I admire your wisdom on this subject.)

 

[arbygil]

I honestly think it could be either @VH, but I do think you lean slightly more to the 8-side of things. Still, you're very right when it comes to 9w1 vs 9w8 and how the wings can play a huge part on how we view ourselves and the world around us. Now mind you, not to throw yet another wrench into the mix...you could be an ENFJ 9w8 instead, which could account for the more assertive behavior; that I could see very well. But I don't quite see you as an INFJ 9w8. Not *quite.*

The other question I have for you is this - you mentioned your childhood at one point. It's possible that you chose to be a nine, to escape a difficult home situation since you didn't want any trouble...and then once you matured your real self began coming out but the "real" self frustrates you because it's neither as kind *nor* as strong as you'd like it to be. Hence, the dichotomy between the two.

All I can say is, you have to find a way to make peace with both sides of yourself, and you have to find a way to forgive yourself (and others) if a conflict arises.

 

[VH]

I honestly think it could be either @VH, but I do think you lean slightly more to the 8-side of things. Still, you're very right when it comes to 9w1 vs 9w8 and how the wings can play a huge part on how we view ourselves and the world around us. Now mind you, not to throw yet another wrench into the mix...you could be an ENFJ 9w8 instead, which could account for the more assertive behavior; that I could see very well. But I don't quite see you as an INFJ 9w8. Not *quite.*

Agreed. I'm either an INFJ 8w9 or an ENFJ 9w8 inherently.
(ENFJ 8w9 is too pushy to be me, and INFJ 9w8 is too passive)

I think one of these is an adaptive mode and I go back and forth. 'Variable Hybrid' is starting to be a good title for me, heh.

The other question I have for you is this - you mentioned your childhood at one point. It's possible that you chose to be a nine, to escape a difficult home situation since you didn't want any trouble...and then once you matured your real self began coming out but the "real" self frustrates you because it's neither as kind *nor* as strong as you'd like it to be. Hence, the dichotomy between the two.

That is very likely.

It also seems like the inverse to me from my perspective (at the same time). I feel like I was a peaceful affable kid, and the home situation (followed by a host of other life experiences) made me get tough and stronger, and now the addition is frustrating me because it's not letting me be as kind as I want to be, but because I've been conditioned to be like this, I can't let myself be weak/vulnerable.

However, your take on this is just as likely. Thanks! I hadn't considered that.

ETA: I suddenly considered the idea of a group of people who's motto is "Strength and Kindness!" and it made me glowy inside. You have re-awakened my inner Paladin. Let's hope he doesn't hit snooze and roll over again, hehe.

All I can say is, you have to find a way to make peace with both sides of yourself, and you have to find a way to forgive yourself (and others) if a conflict arises.

This might be the most important thing you hit on... that I am trying to be two things at once that are in a lot of ways opposed to one another. Good call. I love your Ni. Figuring out how to continue to do both without being toxic to one another will be the challenge.

 

[Kmal]

This really bothered me for a moment, and then I realized it wasn't the pain that was turning me on, it was the submission. And it was at that moment I realized I am a natural dominant, and yet I didn't take over any of those interactions. Sure, I helped keep them fueled and going, but I had no business getting involved. I didn't want to ruin it for them (or myself) by butting in.

Is this an 8w9 thing or a 9w8 thing?

Being dominant doesnt inherent make you an 8, or not a 9. Dominant makes you dominant. Why you are dominant is the question, right? As for me, it's just easier to keep the peace. I'm not dominant just for power, or to boost the ego.

Was there any way of getting in on the action?

 

[VH]

Being dominant doesnt inherent make you an 8, or not a 9. Dominant makes you dominant. Why you are dominant is the question, right? As for me, it's just easier to keep the peace. I'm not dominant just for power, or to boost the ego.

That degree of submission is turning my ego on.

I've been thinking about this, and I really believe that the turn on comes from knowing that if someone is willing to do anything for me... eager to do anything for me, then I can trust them to never leave me or reject me.

Then again, it's also a power trip, and taps into something deeper in me than me ego. My primal nature perhaps?

However, I've only ever seen pain as a tool to get what I want, not part of pleasure, and I'm not at all into hurting the people I care about unless they want me to, at which point it's not really hurting them. Even then, I'm reluctant to try because I don't understand their expectations or needs, and I know I could unleash more than they could take.... which would make me feel really bad for hurting them.

I'm not especially familiar with the terminology or even the subject, but I think I'm a protector-nurturer type dom.

Was there any way of getting in on the action?

Not really. This was pretty much girls showing off at a party. All of them are personal friends, and all but one were in relationships with people in the room (also friends). I could have gotten in there and played around a little, but it wasn't an orgy... just a show (though rather sincere).

I don't think this sort of behavior at parties is especially uncommon these days. If it is then, I'm a pretty lucky dude.

Edited to Add: The person I used to be would have definitely tried to get in there anyway, hehe.

 

[VH]

I realized that I no longer believe that anyone could be in love with me, but that the hope of someone to be in love with has been the driving force of my entire life. When I consider that I might never find love, I lose almost all motivation to even get out of bed. Life is meaningless without love. It always has been.

Does this make me a 9, a 2, or just an 8 sx?