Gay Men Dislike Me (and I Am A Straight Woman)

But what do I know......

Going by your posts (which is all we have to work with), seemingly very little, but you can’t and won’t see that, of course, and that’s not your fault.

And you could work to be the most educated, and clever person in any room you should find yourself in, but that won’t help to change that.

And you can keep looking at other people’s behavior, but you’ll never really understand it because that looking is only a means to an end.


Well-Wishes,
Ian
 
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. While I don't agree with Artemisia's perspectives, it seems like she's genuinely having some trouble seeing everyone else's point of view. While that can be frustrating for those who have initially tried to explain themselves calmly, especially given the delicate subject matter, I am growing a bit concerned with how each compounding reply to the thread is getting sharper and more accusatory even before Artemisia got a chance to reply. If it's an entire group of people against one person, I think it's pretty human to want to defend yourself and you're not going to sound very rational doing it. That and I think most us do want to help Artemisia see how her approach is problematic and gain a bit of self-awareness in order to help her in situations like this in the future.

@Artemisia, I think the main point everyone is trying to make is that it's unfair to make judgments about an entire subsection of a population based on a small sample of anecdotal evidence that is not only highly subjective, but questionable in its verity. Given your manner in this thread (and indeed, the behaviour patterns you showcase in other threads on the forum), I think most people are questioning your initial assessment of the situation. It may be unpleasant to hear this about yourself, but you tend to come off as having a bit of a superiority complex. It is obvious that value your intelligence highly and I think your PhD is indeed testament to your abilities as a student and hard worker, but I think you would also benefit from some humility. A higher education does not grant you universal objectivity nor does it automatically mean that every conclusion come by a formulaic application of an x-study to y-situation is correct just because one or two points in an essay reflect your subjective experience. You may not have clicked into it yet, but the reason people's feathers are getting so ruffled is because this is exactly how prejudices are born and you don't seem to have the objectivity and self-awareness that you think you do to even see it.

See, *any* group of people can get catty and gossipy about a person for all sorts of reasons. You looked at this situation, saw that this was a group of feminine gay men and concluded that the *only* possible reason for this behaviour was because you are straight and female and they are not. Then you went hunting around for some sort of evidence to support your conclusion and assumed your limited experience must be something universal. I hope you can see how that is cringe-worthy just on its own, and what kind of character this conclusion paints.

I understand that you may be feeling othered and excluded by this particular group of people and you want to understand why, but you might want to also consider if there may be something in your approach to other people and your manner that is causing all these problems for you.

I know other people have stated this is in other words, but hopefully, another try will see that you understand. It would also help if you did show some willingness to at least consider what we are trying to tell you.

I wish you well
 
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It's so ridiculous, I've wondered the very same thing many times. I look at my screen just baffled. I think it would honestly be better if it were trolling, that someone didn't actually believe these things, admit to manipulating people in other threads, etc. We've tried though, many times, and these discussions always seem to end the same, regardless of whether it's trolling, or someone being serious.

Some of her threads from former years she seems sincere but in some others recently she appears to be trolling. The ones that are outrageous obviously like the transgendered and this one just don't fit with her previous threads. I thought after I read this thread that she might have a personality disorder, but I do think she was sincere in her threads about her abusive relationships. Or this could be a sad case of the abused turned abuser possibly. All of her threads recently are about relationships and a lot of them recently, well, just boring if they aren't outrageous. Surely this isn't all she thinks about. I think we're being trolled.
 
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. While I don't agree with Artemisia's perspectives, it seems like she's genuinely having some trouble seeing everyone else's point of view. While that can be frustrating for those who have initially tried to explain themselves calmly, especially given the delicate subject matter, I am growing a bit concerned with how each compounding reply to the thread is getting sharper and more accusatory even before Artemisia got a chance to reply. If it's an entire group of people against one person, I think it's pretty human to want to defend yourself and you're not going to sound very rational doing it. That and I think most us do want to help Artemisia see how her approach is problematic and gain a bit of self-awareness in order to help her in situations like this in the future.

@Artemisia, I think the main point everyone is trying to make is that it's unfair to make judgments about an entire subsection of a population based on a small sample of anecdotal evidence that is not only highly subjective, but questionable in its verity. Given your manner in this thread (and indeed, the behaviour patterns you showcase in other threads on the forum), I think most people are questioning your initial assessment of the situation. It may be unpleasant to hear this about yourself, but you tend to come off as having a bit of a superiority complex. It is obvious that value your intelligence highly and I think your PhD is indeed testament to your abilities as a student and hard worker, but I think you would also benefit from some humility. A higher education does not grant you universal objectivity nor does it automatically mean that every conclusion come by a formulaic application of an x-study to y-situation is correct just because one or two points in an essay reflect your subjective experience. You may not have clicked into it yet, but the reason people's feathers are getting so ruffled is because this is exactly how prejudices are born and you don't seem to have the objectivity and self-awareness that you think you do to even see it.

See, *any* group of people can get catty and gossipy about a person for all sorts of reasons. You looked at this situation, saw that this was a group of feminine gay men and concluded that the *only* possible reason for this behaviour was because you are straight and female and they are not. Then you went hunting around for some sort of evidence to support your conclusion and assumed your limited experience must be something universal. I hope you can see how that is cringe-worthy just on its own, and what kind of character this conclusion paints.

I understand that you may be feeling othered and excluded by this particular group of people and you want to understand why, but you might want to also consider if there may be something in your approach to other people and your manner that is causing all these problems for you.

I know other people have stated this is in other words, but hopefully, another try will see that you understand. It would also help if you did show some willingness to at least consider what we are trying to tell you.

I wish you well
Take your own breath.
 
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I asked straight INFJs to reply. The fact that you felt the need to reply to a question that was not addressed to you shows how insecure you are.
Err... Judging by the tone of your posts, my guess is that you're coming off as snotty to your colleagues and I've only read three so far.

Edit- I've read a few more of your posts and if your attitude on this forum is any indication of how you treat others irl, then I'm going to have to say you're your own problem. You are also probably a mentally unstable INTJ. That is all.

Sincerely,

A straight woman who has many male "gay" friends.
 
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