Left or Liberal?

Left or Liberal?

  • Total voters
    6
Asa said:
Uhhhh, woooooooo. Wow.



^^^ This ^^^
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by 'the left' the guy in the clip is meaning communism

he's saying that liberalism is more centre-left but what is shaping leftwing politics in the US today is actually fullblown communism

what do you think about that?
 
only two votes so far!

come on folks hit that vote button!

left or liberal...where do you stand on these issues and why?
 
I don't take my definition of political left, right or liberal centre from a youtube compilation. And it's frustrating discussing issues on this basis.

I leave it here, also on a lighter note, just to make the irony complete, with Dave Chapelle: "Donald Trump might be the lie that saves us all."
 
kinglear said:
ok so you voted 'left' then?

when you say that donald stands on a platform of x, y and z who is it that you are blaming there?

are you blaming farmers in the midwest for that?

are you blaming career politicians in washington DC?

are you blaming wall street?

are you blaming all of them collectively?

can you pin down what it is that you are fighting there?
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Alrighty. I don’t think you’ll find the singular answer you’re looking for. It’s not as if someone or even a group of people woke up one day and said “hey, let’s invent racism.” The subjugation of people of color is an oppression that has existed for millennia. The subjugation of women has existed arguably even longer. The questions of racism and sexism are old, complicated questions that have long, complicated answers. No one person or group of people can answer for them. As for nationalism, imperialism, xenophobia; these are all manufactured and disseminated ideals that have been securely established to prop up the ruling class, although they have been so cleverly disguised to appear for the benefit of every person. These ideals are also archaic, ingrained into society since its very conception. I can’t recommend enough these books, which talk about these phenomena in such complete detail: Manifesto for A Democratic Society by Ocalan, The Rise of Urbanization and the Fall of Civilization by Bookchin, God by Azlan, and Debt by Graeber.

If you’re asking who I blame for Trump’s successful election, the answer is I don’t blame anybody. Like I said, his presidency is the next logical step down a trail through which the nation has already been traveling. Trump is loud, obnoxious, arrogant, corrupt, and fundamentally not much different than many of his modern predecessors or contemporaries. If your ship is made of dog-shit, it doesn’t really matter who the captain is.
 
Haven't had a chance to watch the video but do appreciate the various views as I've also been trying to understand why Trump is hated so much.

I'm not an American but when the presidential race was going on and it was between Trump and Hillary - have to admit that I thought Trump was much more authentic (agree he has an ego but he's not perfect or a saint but then who is?...) than his opposition.

Sorry @Wyote - you must think less of me now. :sorrowful:
 
RonjaRaeubertochter said:
I don't take my definition of political left, right or liberal centre from a youtube compilation. And it's frustrating discussing issues on this basis.

I leave it here, also on a lighter note, just to make the irony complete, with Dave Chapelle: "Donald Trump might be the lie that saves us all."
Click to expand...

The guy in the clip was basing his definition of a liberal on the behaviour of liberals during his lifetime upto the current time

he looks like he is above sixty years old so i think we could safely say he is basing his definition of liberals on about half a century worth of politics

His definition of communism is probably taken from the communist manifesto the planks of which i posted earlier in the thread

So on the issues he posted where do you stand?
 
socks said:
Alrighty. I don’t think you’ll find the singular answer you’re looking for. It’s not as if someone or even a group of people woke up one day and said “hey, let’s invent racism.” The subjugation of people of color is an oppression that has existed for millennia. The subjugation of women has existed arguably even longer. The questions of racism and sexism are old, complicated questions that have long, complicated answers. No one person or group of people can answer for them. As for nationalism, imperialism, xenophobia; these are all manufactured and disseminated ideals that have been securely established to prop up the ruling class, although they have been so cleverly disguised to appear for the benefit of every person.
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are you saying that the US is a racist endevour?

socks said:
These ideals are also archaic, ingrained into society since its very conception. I can’t recommend enough these books, which talk about these phenomena in such complete detail: Manifesto for A Democratic Society by Ocalan, The Rise of Urbanization and the Fall of Civilization by Bookchin, God by Azlan, and Debt by Graeber.

If you’re asking who I blame for Trump’s successful election, the answer is I don’t blame anybody. Like I said, his presidency is the next logical step down a trail through which the nation has already been traveling. Trump is loud, obnoxious, arrogant, corrupt, and fundamentally not much different than many of his modern predecessors or contemporaries. If your ship is made of dog-shit, it doesn’t really matter who the captain is.
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aren't bookchin and graeber anarchists though?

that would mean they would be against centralised government control and therefore they would be opposed to 'the left'
 
kinglear said:
the left is defined by themselves through their manifesto

liberals can be defined by what they have been saying and doing for the last fifty years

so which of those trends if you like do you identify with more?
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I identify with no. =P
 
Isabella said:
Haven't had a chance to watch the video but do appreciate the various views as I've also been trying to understand why Trump is hated so much.

I'm not an American but when the presidential race was going on and it was between Trump and Hillary - have to admit that I thought Trump was much more authentic (agree he has an ego but he's not perfect or a saint but then who is?...) than his opposition.

Sorry @Wyote - you must think less of me now. :sorrowful:
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thanks for your honest and forthright reply

i have recently watched the vietnam war series on netflix and it looked into the administrations of kennedy, LB Johnson and Nixon and you find out a lot of the stuff those guys were upto

the more i learn about different presidents the more crooked they look! I don't think trump is any exception but for some reason people have attacked him more than any other president

The thing about hilary is that she had already been tried because she was in the obama administration so many people who were not happy with the direction of things over those 8 years were going to vote for something different and yet they have been attacked along with trump

he hasn't sent 55,000 boys off to die in another country (yet) or dropped more ordinance on a country than was dropped in the second world war. However he does still have time in his presidency to do something horrifically evil

its all getting pretty ugly out there though and i'd like to get to the bottom of it
 
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Milktoast Bandit said:
Are you being serious?
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did obama get hounded relentlessly by the corporate media?

did he have people from the alphabet agencies relentlessly try and impeach him?

did he see groups face off against each other in the street?

did his political rival call all of his supporters 'deplorable' after they voted him in?

p.s i was pleased when obama got in. I bought his book plus the biographical one about him too and read them both
 
тролль?
товарищ?

People dislike Trump so much because he blatantly lies constantly and was not elected by the majority of people but rather by playing a game of chess with our electoral system and gerrymandered districts disinfrancished by the GOP's “Operation Red Map”.
Now don’t turn around and tell me that Hillary would have been this or that or talk about what Obama did or didn’t do...we are talking about Trump as you have clearly outlined.
Also that video about left or liberal is a biased bunch of hot garbage.
Not to mention that the words left and liberal themselves have different connotations in the US vs Europe.
Most Americans do not know what the difference is between a liberal and a neoliberal and assume they are one and the same.
As far as what I believe I was serious when I said - Don’t box me in.
I have some ideas that would be considered conservative and some that are not.

Trump has been assaulting our democracy since before he took the oath of office...not to mention that he is a sociopathic asshole who throws kids in cages to discourage people from seeking asylum in the US.
Many of whom still are separated from their parents.
People dislike him because Puerto Rico is still fucked up - but look how ready FEMA is for the storm about to hit the Carolinas.
PR is an island you know...those are surrounded by water.
Trump didn’t know that.
Let me reference Gary Hart...what did Gary Hart do that ruined his political career?
Now times that by 1000 and you have the Trump hooker payoff debacle.
Yet, he’s still in power.
Tariffs....taxes on the consumer.
Not to mention his retarded tax plan he pushed through.

People hate him because he exudes hatred and distain toward the general masses of the US.
(Unless you voted for him - but that isn’t how a POTUS is supposed to function)
His racism, sexism, egomania, narcissism...the purposeful seeding of discontent within the country by him on a daily basis.
His disregard for law and his inability to grasp basic concepts of how our laws and gears of this country work...not to mention world politics.
Roughly only 30-something percent give positive approval ratings to the man.
Does he care to try and learn how all this shit functions?
Nope.

He’s a snake oil salesman.
He doesn’t represent the average person here both in political views and in societal norms...he feels he is above the law and has stated as much.
He told people what he was told they wanted to hear to get elected...but that’s all it was, talk.

President Trump has made 4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-claims-in-558-days/?utm_term=.db35bb45ccb9
(Of course the numbers keep going up based on the date as he lies approx 7.6 times a day)
http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/

Now don’t go jumping all over me with critiques and get butthurt about what I just wrote.
Don’t take get excited and start trying to prove me wrong on this and that - if you wanted a debate then you should have specified - I don’t agree with your stance and you surely don’t with mine.
You wanted to know - there you go.
If you think I am wrong - super...I really don’t care.

Not going around and around pointlessly with you again, thanks.
Cheers.





 
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