Left or Liberal?

[kinglear]

I'm reminded of a Leonard Cohen song. . "I'm neither left or right I'm just stayin home tonight getting lost in that hopeless little screen". .(Democracy is Coming to the USA)

he also said this:

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within
I'm coming now, I'm coming to reward them
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin
I'm guided by a signal in the heavens
I'm guided by this birthmark on my skin
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

 

[kinglear]

тролль?
товарищ?

?

Also that video about left or liberal is a biased bunch of hot garbage.
Not to mention that the words left and liberal themselves have different connotations in the US vs Europe.

ok can you explain to me what a liberal is in the US?

we know what a communist is because we have the 10 planks of communism

so can you explain where the liberals differ historically i mean not recently because the point the guy is making in the video is that in recent times the term 'liberal' has been co-opted by communists so we can't say ''liberals support the abolition of private property'' because historically they haven't. Some might now though because they are misidentifying as liberal when actually they are communist

so i'm talking about what has traditionally been called a 'liberal' in the US

also he mentions 6 issues in his post and i understand you want to avoid labels for yourself so maybe you could just say where you stand on those 6 issues?

He told people what he was told they wanted to hear to get elected...but that’s all it was, talk.

yeah i don't believe he is making things better for middle america which was i believe a big part of his voter base for example he surrounded himself with goldman sachs guys who obviously are going to want to benefit speculators and not mom and pop businesses

however that said we have to also consider that all previous presidents failed on promises too and also said what they thought the public wanted to hear. Also obama surrounded himself with wallstreet guys too

 

[kinglear]

Ok here's a challenge!

we have the ten planks of communism

So if people aren't happy with his definition is anyone able to create a ten planks of liberalism manifesto or offer any suggestions to go onto the list?

 

[kinglear]

This.

Also haha, that video in the opening post. "Liberals, conservatives are not your enemy, the left is! Join us and together we will crush the left!". Signed, the conservatives.

so what he is speaking about there is that the aim of the left is to smash nation states to create a world wide revolution leading to a world government that would control all the things mentioned in the communist manifesto (see 10 planks above)

liberals on the other hand have traditionally been patriotic

so how do you feel about that issue?

 

[kinglear]

Labeling people and putting them into categories left to other people's INTERPRETATION, is a dumb idea.
Lots of energy wasted fighting manufactured divisions where people would otherwise get along on the things they do agree.
Politics is a waste of your life.

I think the point of the video is that a lot of people are supporting things without really knowing what it is they are supporting

so i guess if we want to understand what the longterm implications of our actions are going to be we need to understand things more expansively so that we can take responsibility for what we bring down on ourselves and our loved ones and wider society

 

[Skarekrow]

?


ok can you explain to me what a liberal is in the US?

we know what a communist is because we have the 10 planks of communism

so can you explain where the liberals differ historically i mean not recently because the point the guy is making in the video is that in recent times the term 'liberal' has been co-opted by communists'

so i'm talking about what has traditionally been called a 'liberal' in the US

also he mentions 6 issues in his post and i understand you want to avoid labels for yourself so maybe you could just say where you stand on those 6 issues?



yeah i don't believe he is making things better for middle america which was i believe a big part of his voter base for example he surrounded himself with goldman sachs guys who obviously are going to want to benefit speculators and not mom and pop businesses

however that said we have to also consider that all previous presidents failed on promises too and also said what they thought the public wanted to hear. Also obama surrounded himself with wallstreet guys too

I said I’m not going to get into the deep end with you...it’s a waste of my time as you don’t believe or read anything I say or facts posted in response.
I told you that.
And no, if you want to know, then you should go look up the various differences between interpretations of liberals yourself...I have things to do that don’t involve educating people who have the power to do it themselves.
Also you brought up Obama...lol.
You didn’t even read my post...clearly.
Also, no I won’t answer those questions, sorry...I don’t agree with the video overall...it is not representative of reality, it is clearly biased.
I’m out dude.

 

[Lady Jolanda]

so what he is speaking about there is that the aim of the left is to smash nation states to create a world wide revolution leading to a world government that would control all the things mentioned in the communist manifesto (see 10 planks above)

liberals on the other hand have traditionally been patriotic

so how do you feel about that issue?

Are you asking me how I feel about strawmans, sliperry slopes, non sequiturs and biased ideas?

What do you think.

 

[kinglear]

I said I’m not going to get into the deep end with you...it’s a waste of my time as you don’t believe or read anything I say or facts posted in response.
I told you that.
And no, if you want to know, then you should go look up the various differences between interpretations of liberals yourself...I have things to do that don’t involve educating people who have the power to do it themselves.
Also you brought up Obama...lol.
You didn’t even read my post...clearly.
Also, no I won’t answer those questions, sorry...I don’t agree with the video overall...it is not representative of reality, it is clearly biased.
I’m out dude.

give me a minute to rewatch the clip and i'll post the 6 issues and we can take it from there if you like?

you can easily then say where you stand on those issues

 

[kinglear]

Are you asking me how I feel about strawmans, sliperry slopes, non sequiturs and biased ideas?

What do you think.

no i'm asking you if you want to see the US as a nation state end?

 

[Skarekrow]

give me a minute to rewatch the clip and i'll post the 6 issues and we can take it from there if you like?

you can easily then say where you stand on those issues

As I posted in the other thread.
The reasons why people are responding to you the way they are is because you A.) don’t acknowledge the legitimacy of what the other person writes, and B.) whatever they do write you begin to attack or disagree with or criticize.
I realize you are trying to be nice...but you should realize that as well.

 

[Wyote]

Sorry @Wyote - you must think less of me now.

Let me be clear: I don't hate people for simply voting and making a one off judgement call. That was a terrible choice the people were given. Most people agree on that.

Thinking that drumpf was a "less evil" vote at election time is far different from advocating for him and his bullshit.

I feel like people who voted for him were simply misinformed at the time and/or just making a gut reaction call. People should have been absolutely outraged at the choice we faced, but it was simply accepted.

We must demand better candidates to have a better future. But I fear both parties are somewhat in ruins currently. Which is actually what a lot of drumpf voters are/were wishing for.

Drumpf is fucking hilarious if you just don't take anything seriously. I don't like the two faced bullshit of a lot of his voters, claiming patriotism while secretly getting off on watching everything be dismantled. Disgusting. But that's a minority of people. I don't even really hate those people, I just think they're kind of dumb.

 

[kinglear]

As I posted in the other thread.
The reasons why people are responding to you the way they are is because you A.) don’t acknowledge the legitimacy of what the other person writes, and B.) whatever they do write you begin to attack or disagree with or criticize.
I realize you are trying to be nice...but you should realize that as well.

i'm just asking questions

 

[kinglear]

Thinking that drumpf was a "less evil" vote at election time is far different from advocating for him and his bullshit.

we can't know if it was the lesser evil unless we created a parallel universe in which hilary clinton won so that we could then compare their presidencies

what i do remember is that hilary has pursued war aggressively in libya and syria and was acting very aggressively towards russia. Who knows if hilary had got into power maybe we would all have been nuked by now!

I feel like people who voted for him were simply misinformed at the time and/or just making a gut reaction call. People should have been absolutely outraged at the choice we faced, but it was simply accepted.

ok but was it trump or was it hilary who conspired to cut bernie sanders out?

if it was hilary then why aren't people outraged at her?

We must demand better candidates to have a better future. But I fear both parties are somewhat in ruins currently. Which is actually what a lot of drumpf voters are/were wishing for.

Drumpf is fucking hilarious if you just don't take anything seriously. I don't like the two faced bullshit of a lot of his voters, claiming patriotism while secretly getting off on watching everything be dismantled. Disgusting. But that's a minority of people. I don't even really hate those people, I just think they're kind of dumb.

maybe they are not getting off on seeing things dismantled

maybe they are feeling that they can speak their minds again after political correctness was becoming very authoritarian?

 

[Wyote]

after political correctness was becoming very authoritarian?

Lolol muh oppression

 

[Reason]

@kinglear
I'm a liberal, not a leftist. I think antifa and thier allies are a substained threat to our country as much white nationalits are.

I'm no fan of Donald Trump, but I find that this ratcheting up of tensions in the United States is not healthy, I want to to see liberal and conservative forces rise up and squash these radicals.

Also haha, that video in the opening post. "Liberals, conservatives are not your enemy, the left is! Join us and together we will crush the left!". Signed, the conservatives.

Okay... But they are the enemy, they are communists.

 

[Reason]

we can't know if it was the lesser evil unless we created a parallel universe in which hilary clinton won so that we could then compare their presidencies

what i do remember is that hilary has pursued war aggressively in libya and syria and was acting very aggressively towards russia. Who knows if hilary had got into power maybe we would all have been nuked by now!



ok but was it trump or was it hilary who conspired to cut bernie sanders out?

if it was hilary then why aren't people outraged at her?



maybe they are not getting off on seeing things dismantled

maybe they are feeling that they can speak their minds again after political correctness was becoming very authoritarian?

Very astute observations

 

[kinglear]

The 6 issues in the video clip:

1. Race
liberals believe that there is only one race: the human race and that people should integrate whereas communists push a race consciousness that creates divides in society

2. Capitalism
liberals are pro-capitalism but want government to play a bigger role in the economy than conservatives while the left is against capitalism

3. Nationalism
liberals believe in the nation states while the left believes in open borders and class warfare

4. View of america
liberals venerate america while communists say it is a racist endevour

5. free speech
liberals believe people should be able to speak even if they don’t like what is being said but the left is waging war against freedom of speech including the big tech companies

6. western civilisation
liberals champion western civilisation but the left claims western civilisation is a euphemism for ‘white supremicism’

 

[kinglear]

@kinglear
I'm a liberal, not a leftist. I think antifa and thier allies are a substained threat to our country as much white nationalits are.

I'm no fan of Donald Trump, but I find that this ratcheting up of tensions in the United States is not healthy, I want to to see liberal and conservative forces rise up and squash these radicals.

Okay... But they are the enemy, they are communists.

did you know that hilary clinton was a big fan of the communist saul alinksy who wrote a manifesto on how to subvert western society?

 

[JennyDaniella]

the more i learn about different presidents the more crooked they look! I don't think trump is any exception but for some reason people have attacked him more than any other president

Trump displays his arrogance, idiocy, racism, xenophobic misogynistic tendencies, and his Jupiter-sized ego to the public with no shame, and in a way, relishes in it and enjoys the attention.

Of course he would receive more backlash from the public. The man shows his true colors in front of the whole world to see with no absolute remorse.

I mean, what more is there to clarify why Trump has been receiving all the backlash? Yes, many politicians are corrupt, no denying about it—however, Trump takes it on a whole new level and goes with stride and a smile on his face.

Not sure why you even have to wonder in the first place and do this comparison as to why Trump receives all the deserved treatment and criticism. Many of us have already clarified on this thread and you are still wondering why?

 

[kinglear]

Lolol muh oppression

i think it needs to be viewed with historical context

so what happened in russia after the communist takeover was that they imposed political correctness on people and used it as a way to control people

in fact the soviets gave a prize to the person who came up with socionics because he gave them a system through which they could more easily identify personality types that were more likely to question authority eg INFJ's

those people were then thrown in gulags