Straight INFJ Males

[Questingpoet]

I'm in a relationship with an INTJ female. As an INFJ male, I would say this is an extremely unusual relationship as both types are rare. I can't remember how "right" this one is supposed to be, all I know is it's dynamite! Not that we don't have our issues like any other couple. But our synergy is something undreamed of! We share Ni, and she absolutely has strong emotions that I have to entice out at times. And I think I have a lot more T than she expects from a feeler! The best part is the same sense of humor...go figure

I've always gotten along very well with INTJ's. I would recommend this type as a relationship for an INFJ...not that it doesn't have its challenges, but they all do.

 

[RWIndiana]

Well, interesting thread! I thought I was just a weirdo. I've never been accused of being gay, but I have sometimes wondered (since I'm still single and enjoy gardening, playing piano and even doing laundry!) if people ever thought it. Then again, as someone else mentioned somewhere in here, I can also spend hours with a solder gun, gear oil, and pretty much anything that explodes or ignites. Perhaps that balances out the perceptions. I think most people just consider me eccentric. Which I can't entirely deny.

In my opinion, most people who are homosexual are a product of our culture. Maybe especially so with INFJs since we tend to be more sensitive to cultural feedback.

 

[SealHammer]

In my opinion, most people who are homosexual are a product of our culture.

BOY HOWDY IT'S TIME FOR AN ARGUMENT.
[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION]

 

[Trifoilum]

BOY HOWDY IT'S TIME FOR AN ARGUMENT.
@Trifoilum

..Why me?

well, to [MENTION=7123]RWIndiana[/MENTION], my sympathies goes to you.

What consists a homosexual is easy, really; if you get it up with guys -and guys only-, you're a homosexual. (otherwise you'll be bisexual) Of course, this goes to men. It's the opposite with women.

I think culture has a play on how a homosexual should act (some people said act macho! no sissy! Some people said LET YOUR INNER QUEEN OUT), but it has no play about how GLBTQ people exists in the first place, no more than how culture creates straight people in the first place. You seem to be a victim of this culture and/or misperception, and so, my sympathies.

 

[RWIndiana]

Hmm, maybe my words were a bit foggy. I should have said "people with same-sex attraction" instead of "homosexual". The reason I say it's cultural (and yes I realize it's much larger than just that, but I think culture can play a part because of stereotypes and other influences forced upon us) is, in part, because I've seen people with SSA and living a homosexual lifestyle completely change, get married, have children, and live perfectly happy lives afterwards. I can't exactly explain it myself since I've never gone through it. I don't know all the dynamics or how they did change, I only know that it took a strong will and desire to change, as well as a good bit of work.

Another reason is that many who have SSA (again, in my experience, not necessarily indicative of the whole) did not have a strong bond/affection or identification with many of their own gender when they were growing up.

I'm not here to argue. Just stating what I believe and have seen. Besides, I don't think a discussion of this sort exactly fits this thread.

 

[Trifoilum]

Hmm, maybe my words were a bit foggy. I should have said "people with same-sex attraction" instead of "homosexual". The reason I say it's cultural (and yes I realize it's much larger than just that, but I think culture can play a part because of stereotypes and other influences forced upon us) is, in part, because I've seen people with SSA and living a homosexual lifestyle completely change, get married, have children, and live perfectly happy lives afterwards. I can't exactly explain it myself since I've never gone through it. I don't know all the dynamics or how they did change, I only know that it took a strong will and desire to change, as well as a good bit of work.

Another reason is that many who have SSA (again, in my experience, not necessarily indicative of the whole) did not have a strong bond/affection or identification with many of their own gender when they were growing up.

I'm not here to argue. Just stating what I believe and have seen. Besides, I don't think a discussion of this sort exactly fits this thread.

my first and final question; where does bisexuality place in all this? : |

DAMN does this ring my alarm like hell. But let's just agree to disagree on every point, bid our fair ways, and move on.

 

[VH]

When Fe disagrees...

In my opinion, most people who are homosexual are a product of our culture...

I think culture has a play on how a homosexual should act...

The reason I say it's cultural ... I don't know all the dynamics or how they did change, I only know that it took...

DAMN does this ring my alarm like hell...

... and only has Ni to back it up.

I'm in a relationship with an INTJ female. As an INFJ male, I would say this is an extremely unusual relationship as both types are rare.

It's less rare than one would assume. Ni doms gravitate toward each other, and are often found in areas of similar interest. Many of the INTJs and INFJs I know (I dare say close to half) are in relationships with other Ni doms.

But our synergy is something undreamed of! We share Ni, and she absolutely has strong emotions that I have to entice out at times. And I think I have a lot more T than she expects from a feeler! The best part is the same sense of humor...go figure

Later in life (I'd say 30+), when INFJs fully develop their Ti and INTJs fully develop their Fi, this becomes much more the case.

I've always gotten along very well with INTJ's. I would recommend this type as a relationship for an INFJ...not that it doesn't have its challenges, but they all do.

The primary issue with this relationship will be the conflict between Fe and Fi. These functions create our emotional expectations, and until they are better developed, can be toxic to each other. Fe tries to assert and create emotional consensus. This is toxic to Fi, which needs to create and maintain emotional autonomy. This is toxic to Fe, who needs everyone on the same page as far as important values. (See the exchange above, or why Fe inferior INTPs can't drop an argument.) As both types get older, they develop more tolerance for the opposing F function, and eventually some degree of understanding.

Word of advice: never tell an INTJ female you know what they are feeling unless you are agreeing with what they told you.

 

[Trifoilum]

When Fe disagrees...

OH MY FRICKING GOD YOU'RE BACK!

Also, I was prepared to write a lot of stuffs as a response, but....it's inappropriate, given the venue. Got it saved to my blog and all, because it's a nice mental dissection.

 

[VH]

OH MY FRICKING GOD YOU'RE BACK!

This is my front, actually. *turns around* This is my back.

 

[Trifoilum]

This is my front, actually. *turns around* This is my back.

okay.

OH MY FRICKING GOD YOUR FRONT!

 

[VH]

okay.

OH MY FRICKING GOD YOUR FRONT!

Yeah, finally remembered the url and my password.

 

[Trifoilum]

Yeah, finally remembered the url and my password.

Ah, that happens. >_<

 

[RWIndiana]

(. . . or why Fe inferior INTPs can't drop an argument.)

True story. My brother is INTP. He starts arguments when no one else is arguing. I'm sure he could argue with a stone. And he will keep arguing long after he has won. I find this rather humorous.

 

[Questingpoet]

Yeah, finally remembered the url and my password.

Did I actually come back at the same time as VH? Glad we have our act together E!

 

[problemz]

I am so hurt when someone sees me as effeminate or gay / pout for days!

 

[Felidire]

I have a Pansexual mindset, but i'm predominantly straight.

-Dislikes sports.
-Enjoys spiritual and artistic pursuits.

Grew up with mostly female figures from 1-12, males from 13-18. Saw too many females being hurt by guys during my youth, so now I just don't take to most guys very well.

I'm straight, but like women without huge breasts.

-Dislikes those as well. (Bad for the spine, plus they can be damn scary imo!)

I'm kinda 50/50 on the femininity/masculinity, and I tend to like women who are about the same.

 

[subwayrider]

INFJ males are without a doubt the rarest group of MBTI type. Two thirds of INFJs are females. Many INFJ males are gay (possibly a majority), which further reduces the numbers of straight INFJ males.

I see different claims as to the above. I'm not sure what to think yet.

While this might seem like gender bias or even sexism, I've noticed that straight INFJ males do tend to have some significant personality differences from INFJ females and even gay INFJ males, who (and I mean no offense when I say) often share many female perspectives.

The female and gay INFJs have more clearance to express Fe, which is, in the context of current mainstream conventions, a very feminine way of interacting with and seeing the world. A straight INFJ would want his sexual identity validated and thus might over the years shape himself to appear like the other straight males. I see it thus said that a lot of the straight, male INFJs will seem like INTJs.

I can see why you might think that. Maybe the straight males, in overcompensation, at some point make the decision to focus more on their Ni-Ti loops than on using Fe to its full extent in the world. Why? Because they still care what people think and they still need some validation precisely because of Fe. Perhaps more of the females and gay males do prefer to focus on more prolific use of Fe(-Se loops) and this might, in turn, engender some negligence over Ti.

---

I struggled a lot with my identity over the years. I used to think I was gay or bi, because I was more sensitive than my male friends, but now I see I'm most likely straight. This is as simple as noting that I'm only aroused by women, and that I generally find the male figure plain and unappealing.

But, when I was in high school, I did some things that freaked out my straight friends. It was when I first started having friends who were girls, and I was excited over the fact that they wouldn't judge me for wanting to do feminine things. So, with their help, I got to explore my curiosity as to make-up and female clothing. I used to like wearing chick pants, but that's pretty common for skaters, who can be effeminate in style.

I'm straight, but still very feminine in the subtleties. I'm not always sure how to reconcile the two. I still get called "gay" or "queer" or "fag" by some of my more ignorant and homophobic acquaintances -- but all this means is that they are probably closet-homosexuals! Haha. I've read about the studies...the ones that found that homophobic men were turned on by images of gay sex, whereas straight, non-homophobic men were not. Still, the hate lingers in our society, and it does hurt my feelings. I just want to be able to express my feminine qualities whilst retaining my outward straight identity.

But, alas! I am too sensitive to the judgments of others, so I walk around like a robot in chains. What would I be if there were no other people in the world? I cannot say.

 

[Silas]

This is starting to sound like an intervention. I am an INFJ and I have liked girls since I was ten and realized they don't all have cooties.

Do you practice any form of martial arts, or have interest in them?

I too have practiced aikido[/QUOTE]Are you interested in firearms, archery, marksmanship, target shooting?[/QUOTE] archery

As straight INFJ males, do you feel that you fit well into the male stereotype, and if not how so?

I am a craftsman with a love for the out doors but I also love nature and to try to be one with it. From where I am that kinda knocks me off the manly train.

Do you ever have moments of rage?

If so, how does it feel and what tends to cause it in you?

yes and they are usually caused by people being bold faced liars and/or hurting other people. When I get angry people listen and since it is so rare people tend to be very very attentive. It feels as if I am not myself but a force to be reckoned with. In those moments I will do whatever it takes within my moral guide lines to let the person know what they have done, why it is wrong, and what I plan to do about it. I have only had one of those in public and it is still spoken about today as if it was some sort of historic event.

Straight INFJ Males... are you cuddly?

you bet your ass I am. I can innocently spoon for hours.

depends on who you ask, and in what context, but definitely not an alpha...except in crisis mode

Same here when trouble goes down I am the doer, I go into auto pilot and get shit done

 

[VH]

I see it thus said that a lot of the straight, male INFJs will seem like INTJs.

Maybe the straight males, in overcompensation, at some point make the decision to focus more on their Ni-Ti loops than on using Fe to its full extent in the world.

In my experience, we straight INFJ males (especially those of us driven to overcompensate for various reasons) often seem more like ISTPs than INTJs. We tend to engage our Se in specific areas to appear 'manly' and 'physical', and our Ti to appear 'manly' and 'logical'. It ends in this strange combination that looks like Ni > Ti = Se > Fe, with Ti, Se, and Fe rotating preference to suit whichever situation is needed.

I struggled a lot with my identity over the years. I used to think I was gay or bi, because I was more sensitive than my male friends, but now I see I'm most likely straight. This is as simple as noting that I'm only aroused by women, and that I generally find the male figure plain and unappealing.

But, when I was in high school, I did some things that freaked out my straight friends. It was when I first started having friends who were girls, and I was excited over the fact that they wouldn't judge me for wanting to do feminine things. So, with their help, I got to explore my curiosity as to make-up and female clothing. I used to like wearing chick pants, but that's pretty common for skaters, who can be effeminate in style.

I'm straight, but still very feminine in the subtleties. I'm not always sure how to reconcile the two. I still get called "gay" or "queer" or "fag" by some of my more ignorant and homophobic acquaintances -- but all this means is that they are probably closet-homosexuals! Haha. I've read about the studies...the ones that found that homophobic men were turned on by images of gay sex, whereas straight, non-homophobic men were not. Still, the hate lingers in our society, and it does hurt my feelings. I just want to be able to express my feminine qualities whilst retaining my outward straight identity.

But, alas! I am too sensitive to the judgments of others, so I walk around like a robot in chains. What would I be if there were no other people in the world? I cannot say.

I can identify so much with all of this, it's not funny.

Where you at any point a victim of violence or physical threats, which set you on a path of anti-victimhood? I got picked on and beat up quite a bit as a kid by the other males, and consequently got into (well, was put into by my ISTP father) martial arts - and soon found it was a way to not only defend myself but remove my fears of conflict. I grew into being a self confident 'fighter', and even came to enjoy sparring and combat great deal, but it wasn't my nature at all.

 

[Torsion]

GIANT WALL OF TEXT

^^ Rumours regularly spring up that I'm gay amoungst associates on the fringe of my "social" circles regardless of evidence to the contrary because I tend to spend a long (too long) time between relationships and when I'm single, I don't sleep around or hit on women all the time. Also I don't go out much, particularly after a breakup, so perhaps they think I'm having secret liaisons with a carefree philipino boy when In fact I'm probably at home playing PC games.

This is starting to sound like an intervention. I am an INFJ and I have liked girls since I was ten and realized they don't all have cooties.

lol

I've liked them since I first went into school. I wonder if our instinctive mental attraction to women appears earlier than other men? I asked a girl to marry me when I was 6. I had my first dream about kissing a girl when I was 7. Of course I later became completely paralyzed around the amazing creatures.


Martial Arts?
They vagualy interest me, but I've never needed them. I got into fights regularly during my school days and have lost 1 fight ever in my life. I've found a lot of people who claim to be this or that belt actually are slow and unbalanced and fight poorly. I never started the fights, but always ended them, swiftly. These days the worst I get is the odd huge guy trying to walk through me in the busy streets only to nearly knock himself over. It's deeply satisfying to see the "wtf" look on their faces. That'll teach you to try and push people around. Dick.

Military?
No. None.

Firearms?
Just an air rifle as a kid. I can't stand the noise of guns. I like archery (robin hood is a bit of a hero of mine) but they make you take a psychological evaluation here to join the archery club. As it's not in my native language I don't feel comfortable with that. Also I'm kind of lazy sometimes

Sterotype?
No. Can any introvert be a "stereotypical male?" Besides who would want to be? Male stereotypes are jerks normally.

I don't really participate in sports watching or playing, though I did like playing sports in school sometimes. Being from Scotland, soccer/football is a big thing but there's so much religious/sectarian conflict intertwined with the teams it drives me away.

I do sometimes watch NHL but I take it or leave it. TBH I think I only watch it to keep up appearances. Only a handful of guys at work watch NHL so it's easier to avoid sports conversations in the hallways. "Did you see that game between this football team and that?" "No, I don't follow american football. I'm a hokey fan. Did you see Mclaren punch that guy out last night? Hilarious!" If there's nothing guys who spew sports stats and names out dislike more is a convo where they don't know anything and they generally just go away. However on facebook occasionally someone who's properly into NHL will want to talk about a game, and post on my wall about it. I can reply in my own time, and it appears to my peers that I am one of the lads so to speak. So there I don't match the sterotype.

With women I've been described as the strong mysterious silent type, and some girls love it. I can be a bit random and still haven't got things figured out, but this is where my masculine components are brought out. I certainly will not have a one night stand or random sex after just meeting a woman, I still need to build up some trust. However, I'm very instinctive and draw a great deal of strength from looking after women. Actually almost all my strength thinking about it. I have a bit of a "just do as I say because it's what's best" approach and in that sense I tend to be playfully dominant, though this only works because I never guide them to do anything unreasonable and am otherwise always very attentive. The ladies I tend to sync with have collectively decided I make them "feel like little girls" (In a good way apparently.) It took a long time to become comfortable enough with women and confident in myself to become intimate, I always worried I wouldn't be good enough, but now once I get to the intimacy stage with someone, sexually I let my instincts loose.

However, on the flip side. I have to admit I can be what I've been told is "childish." If I'm hurt I can sit in a huff, sometimes I've seethed with hurt that I imagine must radiate like a becon. I've actually made a girl who pissed me off by messing me around cry from sitting in angry silence, ignoring all the little noises etc she was making signaling she wants attention. [Yes, jerk move] I can be like that until my need to look after her over-rides my hurt or she makes it up to me ( and I DO expect her to. Again, jerky and something I need to work on.) I quite literally need a woman to care about and to care about me. Without exercising to keep fit to maitain my confidence and focusing on my protectiveness of women I'm a complete mess.

Rage and Feeling and Cause?
When I was about 16 I'd go apocalyptic all the time if someone tried to pick on me or my friends. It'd flare and die relatively quickly though. It takes SO much these days to make me full on rage and is extremely rare. Lack of sleep, hunger, and stress are generally needed to make me growl. Normally causes would be extreme cases of someone lying, trying to take advantage of me or someone else, something I need to happen not occurring as expected or on time. For a sure fire way? Someone causing discomfort for my girlfriend.
Oddly I have zero road rage. I've been nearly killed on my motorcycle before due to an idiot who didn't have right of way zooming into a T junction. I was more irritated the fact they wouldn't stop asking if I was okay than that they caused an accident. I just wanted them to go away.

Cuddly?
Oh god yes. But only once I'm really comfortable with the current situation. Even if I'm perfectly comfortable with a female friend in general, if they come up and are all like "yeay hug" as a greeting I feel awkward and un-natural as fuck unless I'm specifically mentally prepared and know I'm going to see them and that that's likely to happen...even then though...
On the other hand, if I'm sitting for a while and we're talking, and I'm single, even with female friends after a while I just want to put my arm around them or lean into them and constantly have to hold myself back and it causes quite some internal conflicts. If they're single as well if I get that warmth vibe I don't hold back. (I have this stupid hang up/ rule / thing about not hitting on girls that are seeing someone that I can't get over no matter how much I have fallen for someone.)
In a relationship I crave physicality, holding hands, holding her round the waist from behind as we stand talking to friends (or rather as she talks ^^ and I listen), and it hurts me a bit if I get brushed off when she's not in the mood. Something I need to work on. I've made some fails in the past because I can be "too much."



....and whoah. That was way too much info and text. ^^

Basically from this, in my humble opinion :
- If anything lumberjacks and firemen are probably a jobs aligned with the INFJ. Nature and solitude in a lumberjack, slefless protection in a fireman while not caring about pay. These are sterotypically manly.
- We're not any less masculine at all. Confidence is an issue to maintain and we can become less masculine as a result. It took me a long time to realize it, but at our core is a caveman who wants to live in the woods and have lots of steamy sex with his woman, while using our heightened senses to hunt. I don't think we're meant for the crowded noisy cities or stresses of taxes and all that mess.
- we absolutely must must MUSTworkout in terms of resistance training beyond normal guys for our own confidence. The "pain" from wrecking my muscles also ... does something to me. Makes me feel like a man. If I don't work out I quickly start to feel like ****. Women will react so differently with you. When you start noticing blouses getting and extra un-buttoning when you're around it really helps get over the paralyzing fear. Guys also wont fuck with you as much, and will treat you with some respect if you look like you could knock their teeth out.